Downsizing too quickly?

[Ms.A 0]

I have questions about downsizing!

I've been flying a PD 210 for the past 30 jumps, and it has worked out fine for me. It's a bit large, but I've had some great landings while flying it.

Recently, I met an ex-skydiver who offered his complete rig for me to jump until I find and purchase one. This could be several months, so the offer is amazing!

I took the rig to the dz today to get the reserve repacked and the whole thing checked out by the Head Instructor.

The new rig is a Sabre.1 150.
That's quite a step down in size from the 210 I'm used to flying.
My exit weight is about 155.
My landings have been smooth.
And, I realize the Sabre 1 is quite the hard opening.

Now, with that being said, one instructor suggested I fly a 190 for a few, then a 170 and then give the new rig a whirl.
Another instructor didn't agree completely. He didn't think this would be too much of a shok.

Both instructors have flown with me for fun, as well as for training.

What do y'all think?

Landing, in my opinion, is the most dangerous part of the skydive. I'm willing to take my time, if it means saving myself any pain.

However, I have nothing to compare it to, as my initial gear transition was barely noticeable. Though, I'm so anxious to put on the "new" rig and save myself some gear rental costs!

Thoughts?

There is not enough darkness in the World to extinguish the light of one small candle

[billvon 3,088]

>one instructor suggested I fly a 190 for a few, then a 170 and then give the new rig a whirl.

Sounds like good advice.

Keep in mind that if a given main parachute is landing you safely and getting you back, there's really no reason to downsize. There may be other deals around that will work as well.

[Ms.A 0]

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> if a given main parachute is landing you safely and getting you back, there's really no reason to downsize. reply]

I hadn't planned on downsizing for a while, as I'm a newbie and not trying to rush anything. However, the rental rig (the 210) I've been using blew up last weekend. Therefore, my only option for flying is a 230.

Now, while I'm not trying to break records on downsizing, I'm also not trying to climb sizes, either.

Yes, it does sound like pretty good advice to try on the other in-between sizes for a few jumps. Hmm...

There is not enough darkness in the World to extinguish the light of one small candle

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[miss3sixty 0]

Hi Ms.A,

Im in a very similar position to you. I cannot afford gear hire any more!!!

I origionally did AFF on a 260, then our DZ got a 210 which I enjoyed for a while.

My sister has just bought a spectre 150 and has given me her spinnaker 175.

At about 45 jumps, I went from the 210 to the DZ's 170, which was a sabre 1.

I got approval from the folks at the DZ because my landings had been sensible and consistent. They trained me on the two-handle system, and made me wait for suitable weather conditions.

They advised me to pull high and get to know the canopy, and set myself up with a nice long landing area and warned me about low turns etc.

I found it absoloutley fine. The quicker rate of descent actually made it easier to judge the altitude and time the turns etc

BUT BE WARNED-- The buggar does spank!!

However, careful packing, a good deployment bodyposition etc can all help

It would probably be ideal to do 210-190-170-150

But whats in important is that you do jump SOMETHING inbetween the 210 and the 150 for a while


Hope this helps x

PS, since downsizing, I have made my first unintentional down-wind landing, have landed in sheep shit and I owe the DZ beer from doing my first fence landing!

(none of which anythig to do with the canopy!)

HA HA

Miss3sixty

Skydiving- it has its ups and downs

[jools 0]

You might want to think about the reserve size, is that a 150 or is it smaller?

"If you don't like it then fuck off" BASE 621

[BIGUN 1,438]

1. As you "step down," you may want to be proficient at everything on Billvon's Downsizing Checklist (and, I'd like to add that it doesn't mean just once, it means being proficient at it.).

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47

2. Does the harness fit you properly?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[GravityGirl 0]

Take the progression. And only make the decision to buy or not buy after you are down to the 170. It may be that you feel more comfortable with a 170 for a while.

Where do you jump? What elevation?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[wildfan75 1]

If the harness fits, check to see what you can fit into the container. On transitioning from the club's transition rig (silhoette 190) to my "new" rig, I was able to borrow and fit someone's pd-190 into my container before jumping my silhoette 170. That way you're not having to pay for full gear rental, but not downsizing too quickly.

But listen to your instructors AND be 100% sure of your decision.

[yoink 321]

I wouldn't use your last point as a reason not to buy a rig without jumping it first.

Not all Sabres spank open.

I've got a lovely Sabre that opens well every time - The only difference in packing it is that I put a few more rolls in the tail than I would do for another canopy.

[mjosparky 4]

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You might want to think about the reserve size, is that a 150 or is it smaller?

This is an excellent point. The first thing to consider when buying gear, new or used is the minimum size reserve you feel comfortable jumping. Not comfortable jumping in perfect conditions but when your world has just turned to shit and that reserve is all you have left. Everything else should be based off of that choice.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Brumby 0]

I was jumping a 210 up untill my 200th jump. Admitingly, i am sum what heavier than you but i got a demo rig while my new 170 was on order. stepping from a 210 to a 190 was a big difference. I done about 30 or 40 jumps on the 190 and now im on a 170 and its worked out great.

My opinion is dont go too small too quick otherwise you may hurt yourself.

As my saying goes, i have all the time in the world to downsize so theirs no need to rush these things

[countzero 7]

print out the downsizing info on bigairsportz.com. very good info.

diamonds are a dawgs best friend

[catalin 0]

I downsized from a F111 Manta 290 to a ZP Sabre1 150 when I had like 50 jumps! My exit weight is about 198-200 lbs.

All I had done to that point were accuracy jumps from 1000m and that was my first jump from 4000m. The DZ was new and they didn't have gear rental yet. I wanted to jump really badly and there was a choice between a bigger canopy and the Sabre 150. The instructor gave me the Sabre because it had a Cypres. It all went well, there was no problem landing it. I did 3 jumps on it that day.

Later on when they offered gear rental I jumped a Spectre 190 for like 10 jumps and now I'm jumping a Sabre2 170 - I think I'll stay on it for a while. I think I'm safer jumping the Sabre2 170 than the Spectre 190 because it's more responsive hence more predictable.

The general opinion around here is that in perfect conditions you can jump very small parachutes and be safe, but the problems arise when you have to deal with the unexpected. Find a canopy you're comfortable with. Give the Sabre 150 a try when the weather is good and if you like it have fun with it!

[dragon2 2]

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think I'm safer jumping the Sabre2 170 than the Spectre 190 because it's more responsive hence more predictable.

I totally do not follow that logic.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[pirana 0]

Do the smart thing. Do the transition to 190 then 170 and see where it goes from there. Don't set an arbitrary target based on your limited experience.

It's not just about the landings. Others mentioned the downsizing checklist. All those things on that list are important. What if you have to land out in a tight spot? What if you had to avoid canopy traffic?

You might be surprised at the results of each downsize. I could hardly tell the difference from 215 to 190. Then I went to 170. Big difference. Very fun indeed, but I remember my first thought (actually said it out loud - VERY LOUD; "So this is what they were talking about!"

Yeeha.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[crazyboy 0]

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print out the downsizing info on bigairsportz.com. very good info.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

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I downsized from a F111 Manta 290 to a ZP Sabre1 150 when I had like 50 jumps! My exit weight is about 198-200 lbs.

USPA suggests for a B-licence holder a wingload of 1.0 maximum.
Downsizing from 290sqft to a ZP 150sqft canopy (WL: 1.33) is crazy.
The instructor who gave the sabre to you is really stupid.

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I think I'm safer jumping the Sabre2 170 than the Spectre 190 because it's more responsive hence more predictable

That's a great wisdom, where did you learn it?

Downsizing on 150sqft is a big step. Faster turns, more aggressive ...
In my opinion you should go the longer way. First 190 then 170 (if possible a Sabre 1). How are the openings, how are the landings? Do you (and your instructors) think you can land it savely under circumstances that are not perfect?

Your instructors told you different opinions. Ask them for a reason.


By the way: according to the USPA "Any parachute 150 square feet or smaller is considered a high-performance parachute and falls into the D license guideline regardless of the wing loading"
(SIM, Section 5-3.B.6)

If your parachute fails to open, remember you have the rest of your live to fix it.

[NWFlyer 2]

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The general opinion around here is that in perfect conditions you can jump very small parachutes and be safe, but the problems arise when you have to deal with the unexpected. Find a canopy you're comfortable with. Give the Sabre 150 a try when the weather is good and if you like it have fun with it!

Yes, because everyone knows that the unexpected never happens when the weather is good.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Cloudi 0]

I would suggest going with your instructors' advice above all else because they know you and the LZ conditions.

Having said that, I find little reason for you to be entertaining the thought of a 150, much less actually jumping one (even in the most ideal conditions) at this stage in your progression.

Listen to your instructors, but do research and use common sense. It is common for anyone (instructors included) to forget what it's like to be where you are. Many will relate to their current experience, even when advising a new jumper.

A 1.3:1 wingloading under a 150 is typically reckless at 50 jumps, but maybe with a bit more information about your skill level and landing conditions, many people might understand the logic. Then again, maybe not.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[georgerussia 0]

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The DZ was new and they didn't have gear rental yet. I wanted to jump really badly and there was a choice between a bigger canopy and the Sabre 150. The instructor gave me the Sabre because it had a Cypres. It all went well, there was no problem landing it. I did 3 jumps on it that day.

I cannot imagine any instructor who'd give a Sabre 150 to a student only jumping Manta 288. Are you sure he was the instructor? Maybe you talked to a packer?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Squeak 17]

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The DZ was new and they didn't have gear rental yet. I wanted to jump really badly and there was a choice between a bigger canopy and the Sabre 150. The instructor gave me the Sabre because it had a Cypres. It all went well, there was no problem landing it. I did 3 jumps on it that day.

I cannot imagine any instructor who'd give a Sabre 150 to a student only jumping Manta 288. Are you sure he was the instructor? Maybe you talked to a packer?

I went from a 270 to a 230 then at 48 jumps i went from the 230 to a Hornet 150, all at my instructors sugestion.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[popsjumper 2]

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Now, with that being said, one instructor suggested I fly a 190 for a few, then a 170 and then give the new rig a whirl.
Another instructor didn't agree completely. He didn't think this would be too much of a shok.

...I'm willing to take my time, if it means saving myself any pain.

...I'm so anxious to put on the "new" rig and save myself some gear rental costs! reply]

I didn't read the entire thread and I'm sure it's been said before but there's two key things involved here as you've just about answered your own question.

Even Instructors have different opinons and advice about a specific situation.

I advise taking the conservative approach. You seem to realize that in your heart-of-hearts, too.
Don't sweat the rental costs...you could maybe put a bigger main of an interim size in the new rig and jump that until you get comfortable with it and learn it well and then move down to the 150.

On a side note...can you get something better than the Sabre1 for a main?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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[tbrown 26]

A 1.3:1 wingloading under a 150 is typically reckless at 50 jumps, but maybe with a bit more information about your skill level and landing conditions, many people might understand the logic. Then again, maybe not.

[Cloudi 0]

Really good advice and points that I'm assuming are directed to the OP and another poster.

Not your fault. I drunk-posted and muddied the waters a bit by confusing information between catalin and Ms.A.

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[georgerussia 0]

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I went from a 270 to a 230 then at 48 jumps i went from the 230 to a Hornet 150, all at my instructors sugestion.

The instructor gave you Hornet 150 with WL 1.32 when you had 48 jumps???
Maybe it is the same instructor.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Squeak 17]

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I went from a 270 to a 230 then at 48 jumps i went from the 230 to a Hornet 150, all at my instructors sugestion.

The instructor gave you Hornet 150 with WL 1.32 when you had 48 jumps???
Maybe it is the same instructor.

Yup I said I'd probably be better on a 170 they talked me out of it.and it was not one instructor but 4.

The downsizing culture here is quite different to the US

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?