jcd11235 0 #351 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399Just as long as we all understand I made my point and you choose to move the goal posts, and add qualifiers like usual. I'm not the one one who has failed to support his assertion, Vinnie. The fault in your logic has been explained. If you choose to ignore it, then you're being willfully ignorant.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #352 October 15, 2014 QuoteHow many citizens are you willing to make it harder for them to vote? None I even stated I want EVERYONE to legally vote, even said I was down for and offered ways we could facilitate that at no cost to the person trying to get ID, never even set a time frame, just said we need to secure the voting process for the future. Lovely how 15 pages into this its forgotten. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #353 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399QuoteHow many citizens are you willing to make it harder for them to vote? None I even stated I want EVERYONE to legally vote, even said I was down for and offered ways we could facilitate that at no cost to the person trying to get ID, never even set a time frame, just said we need to secure the voting process for the future. Lovely how 15 pages into this its forgotten. Funny how you keep ignoring the fact that a picture ID requirement doesn't do anything to prevent voter fraud.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #354 October 15, 2014 So you are willing to spend significant money to "solve" a problem which currently does not exist? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #355 October 15, 2014 QuoteThe fault in your logic has been explained. If you choose to ignore it, then you're being willfully ignorant. No its just the fact that before that I told you I was done talking about this moot angle of the voter issue, and you are unwilling to take a hint. The rules you are proposing I have to argue by just to try and win some stupid internet argument has gotten ridiculous. No matter who is right or wrong sometimes two people reach a point where and its time to stop. I reached my point with you on this long ago, but yet you continue. How about that local sports team.... anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #356 October 15, 2014 SkyDekkerSo you are willing to spend significant money to "solve" a problem which currently does not exist? I'm applying for a federal grant to implement a program that would prevent monkeys from stealing cars, because, you know, it could possibly be a problem someday.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #357 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399QuoteThe fault in your logic has been explained. If you choose to ignore it, then you're being willfully ignorant. No its just the fact that before that I told you I was done talking about this moot angle of the voter issue, and you are unwilling to take a hint. The rules you are proposing I have to argue by just to try and win some stupid internet argument has gotten ridiculous. No matter who is right or wrong sometimes two people reach a point where and its time to stop. I reached my point with you on this long ago, but yet you continue. How about that local sports team.... anyone? I didn't propose the rules. They've been around for quite some time.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,608 #358 October 15, 2014 QuoteThe rules you are proposing I have to argue by just to try and win some stupid internet argument has gotten ridiculous. The rules being your argument needs to make sense and it needs to reflect reality. Which part of that do you think doesn't matter? You decided to try and show that everyone entitled to vote must have ID because everyone needs ID to live. You haven't been able to do that. By all means move on to a different argument, but you really could be a little more gracious about it.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #359 October 15, 2014 Funny how you ignore the fact that a picture ID proposal involves registration as per the first post of this thread, and stated multiple times throughout. I have even agreed that just an ID would be almost useless, but you still bring it up like you have never thrown out that argument because you have no where else to go with this. Simple fact is if we could get everyone an ID, have them register that would create a system that lets us know who is supposed to vote and where, and prevent them from showing up at locations and being able to vote elsewhere. Your registration is tied on an online secure portal where you can request absentee ballots once to be filled out by yourself and mailed in to be counted once. Why think backwards and not forwards on this issue, you suggesting we go back to handwritten pieces of paper and a giant box? There was nothing really wrong with last version of the ipad, but we continue to make new ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #360 October 15, 2014 QuoteBy all means move on to a different argument, but you really could be a little more gracious about it There are a few active threads in which he gets a little flustered when encountering a different viewpoint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #361 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399Funny how you ignore the fact that a picture ID proposal involves registration as per the first post of this thread, and stated multiple times throughout. I have even agreed that just an ID would be almost useless, but you still bring it up like you have never thrown out that argument because you have no where else to go with this. Simple fact is if we could get everyone an ID, have them register that would create a system that lets us know who is supposed to vote and where, and prevent them from showing up at locations and being able to vote elsewhere. Your registration is tied on an online secure portal where you can request absentee ballots once to be filled out by yourself and mailed in to be counted once. Why think backwards and not forwards on this issue, you suggesting we go back to handwritten pieces of paper and a giant box? There was nothing really wrong with last version of the ipad, but we continue to make new ones. For a moment, let's ignore the fact that that is not what any of the proposals the Republicans are pushing for do. How would such a system work, exactly? How would you ensure that voter addresses were kept up to date. How would you ensure that the Web portal was secure? What remedies would be in place for voters who had their vote stolen by hackers? How would absentee voters without Internet access be allowed to vote? How do you ensure that all citizens have the opportunity to re-register without hardship? How much money would implementing such a system cost? What you are proposing sounds like an expensive solution in search of a problem.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #362 October 15, 2014 QuoteYou decided to try and show that everyone entitled to vote must have ID because everyone needs ID to live. You haven't been able to do that. Negative...woah...That was never my argument. We split off and were... 1. Talking about how you need an ID to buy guns a constitutional right(page 8-11) 2. Then we started talking about how anyone could live without an ID this day and age.(page 11+) Voting was brought up as a use for ID but the main point was living in the US without needing ID. My point from page 11 QuoteYour telling me 11% of Americans (the estimated amount)have never needed to cash a check at the bank? Or do ANYTHING that requires an ID? The way you say it we are talking the poor/elderly/etc who are probably on governmental assistance. Does one not need ID for welfare services? You two are the ones trying to tie this to that etc... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 385 #363 October 15, 2014 QuoteSimple fact is if we could get everyone an ID, have them register that would create a system that lets us know who is supposed to vote...Seems as if you are a supporter of the Real ID Act. How very "conservative" of you. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #364 October 15, 2014 QuoteSeems as if you are a supporter of the Real ID Act. How very "conservative" of you. Former President Jimmy Carter was the head of the Commission on Federal Election Reform that suggested it...How conservative is he? http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/AssetManager/Exhibit%20M.PDF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #365 October 15, 2014 http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=8713 QuoteCritics of requiring voters to present a photo ID at the polls say the practice would disenfranchise minority voters, and some even accuse proponents of being motivated by racism. They don’t mention, however, that a 21-member bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter, advocated just such a policy in 2005. The commission, also co-chaired by former Secretary of State James Baker, called voter identification one of “five pillars” that would “build confidence” in the integrity of federal elections. Only three of the 21 commission members voted against requiring photo identification of voters. “The right to vote is a vital component of U.S. citizenship, and all states should use their best efforts to obtain proof of citizenship before registering voters,” the commission’s report stated. “In close or disputed elections, and there are many, a small amount of fraud could make the margin of difference.” Far from seeing a photo ID requirement as a negative, the commission said it could become a path to even greater access to the ballot. “To prevent the ID from being a barrier to voting, we recommend that states use the registration and ID process to enfranchise more voters than ever,” the executive summary of the commission’s report states. “States should play an affirmative role in reaching out to non-drivers by providing more offices, including mobile ones, to register voters and provide photo IDs free of charge. There is likely to be less discrimination against minorities if there is a single, uniform ID, than if poll workers can apply multiple standards.” The commission urged “procedural and institutional safeguards” to ensure that citizens’ rights are not abused and that no voters are disenfranchised. It also proposed that voters not in possession of a photo ID be allowed to cast a provisional ballot until they are verified. Guess me, Jimmy and the other 21-member bipartisan Commissioners are just a bunch of assholes trying to keep the poor man down again.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,608 #366 October 15, 2014 QuoteNegative...woah...That was never my argument. Then why did you bring it up and why have you spent so long talking about it? What's the point?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,131 #367 October 15, 2014 >You could argue that someone like that doesn't deserve to vote because they're >not up on current events. Good argument, actually. I propose a simple test: 1) Is CO2 a greenhouse gas? 2) Is humanity increasing its concentration in our atmosphere? 3) Was the Earth formed ~6000 years ago? 4) Does all life on Earth share a common ancestor? If you answer correctly you get to vote. I can see no sane reason for anyone to object to this commonsense demonstration of basic voting competence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #368 October 15, 2014 QuoteThen why did you bring it up and why have you spent so long talking about it? What's the point? Someone brought up the fact that not everyone has or needs ID. A few of us threw out points that you could, a few threw out a few points that you couldn't. You know how it goes from there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,174 #369 October 15, 2014 So why don't you tell us exactly HOW your proposal will work to increase the fairness of elections. By what % will fraud be reduced, by what % will disenfranchisement be reduced, and the overall effect on fairness.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #370 October 15, 2014 kallend So why don't you tell us exactly HOW your proposal will work to increase the fairness of elections. By what % will fraud be reduced, by what % will disenfranchisement be reduced, and the overall effect on fairness. He'll ignore those questions from you, too, I bet. Because he knows someone who needed a picture ID to do something once.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #371 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399 Guess me, Jimmy and the other 21-member bipartisan Commissioners are just a bunch of assholes trying to keep the poor man down again.... For about 12 percent of eligible voters who do not have a driver's license, the commission says states should provide at no cost an identification card that contains the same key information. Still, the proposed ID card drew sharp dissent from some commissioners, among them former Senate Democratic leader Thomas A. Daschle (S.D.). In a dissent joined by two other commissioners, Daschle likened the ID to a "modern day poll tax." -- So no, even they didn't quite all agree, because they know simply saying make it free and easy to get doesn't mean it will be successful. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #372 October 15, 2014 Yea 3 out of 21 did not agree woooooo..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,608 #373 October 15, 2014 cvfd1399Someone brought up the fact that not everyone has or needs ID. A few of us threw out points that you could, a few threw out a few points that you couldn't. You know how it goes from there. You brought up the entire 'needing an ID to cash a check' tangent and then kept on flogging it for page after page. If it had nothing to do with the voting requirement angle why did you give so much of a shit?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #374 October 15, 2014 I will say it again Someone brought up the fact that not everyone has or needs ID. A few of us threw out points that you could, a few threw out a few points that you couldn't. You know how it goes from there. We got into a debate about needing ID to live a normal life... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,608 #375 October 15, 2014 QuoteWe got into a debate about needing ID to live a normal life... Yeah. Because you wanted to (and failed to) show that everyone eligible to vote would need ID anyway. No idea why you're unwilling to admit that now.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
