What is so evil about requiring id to vote?

[jakee 1,585]

cvfd1399

Don't forget to stop for breaks while moving those goal posts.

Dallas was just the first set of numbers that popped up, not the focal point of the discussion. Unless you think that non-mobile people only live in Dallas.

The point is that there are far more polling stations than DMV offices, and you may have noticed that the USA is a very big place. This means that, for a lot of people, it is a lot more difficult to get to the DMV than a polling booth.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

GeorgiaDon

Which is worse: a false vote, or a denied vote?

I would argue that a denied vote is worse.

The Constitution provides for standards that, if met, guarantee one's right to vote. It does not, however, require that these be minimum standards to be allowed to vote.

For example, the 26th Amendment does not require one to be eighteen years of age to vote, but rather guarantees that no citizen who reaches the age of eighteen shall be deprived of the right to vote. If a state wanted to allow sixteen and seventeen year-old to vote, the Constitution does not prohibit such a standard.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

regulator

******Ok you say its too intrusive to require people to get an ID to vote. Then how do you stop legal Americans from voting dozens of times, prevent illegal immigrants from voting, or verify the integrity of the vote?

Or are you saying that all of the above is ok? "Vote early, vote often" is the course we are going.

Such voter fraud doesn't seem to be an actual problem as much as something to be used for fear mongering.

According only to the democratic demographic.

See GeorgiaDon's post above. It is quite informative.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[billvon 3,097]

>According only to the democratic demographic.

Let's see what Republicans have to say about it:

Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai - voter ID laws would “allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania."

“I think we had a better election,” Pennsylvania’s GOP chairman Rob Gleason said in July. “Think about this: We cut Obama by 5 percent…I think Voter ID helped a bit in that.”

Don Yelton. . . admitted that North Carolina’s new voting law, which includes voter ID, is “going to kick Democrats in the butt.”

Greg Abbott: "DOJ’s accusations of racial discrimination are baseless. In 2011, both houses of the Texas Legislature were controlled by large Republican majorities, and their redistricting decisions were designed to increase the Republican Party’s electoral prospects at the expense of the Democrats. It is perfectly constitutional for a Republican-controlled legislature to make partisan districting decisions, even if there are incidental effects on minority voters who support Democratic candidates."

Ohio republicans tried to restrict early voting in Ohio. Why? GOP Chair Doug Preisse: “I guess I really actually feel we shouldn’t contort the voting process to accommodate the urban—read African-American—voter-turnout machine.”

So at least we know why Republicans want to mess with such laws - to prevent democrats from winning elections. And to suppress black votes, of course.

[jakee 1,585]

lummy

Dallas county is ~900 sq miles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_County,_Texas

how can the furthest distance someone would have to travel to a DMV be 10 miles when there are only 7 in the county?

I'm not sure how to do the maths on the most efficient spacing (Billvon? Kallend?) but 900mi^2 is only 30mi along the edge. Doesn't sound too far off.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,585]

rushmc

the poor tend not to live in rural areas as they have no transportaion alvailable to them

And no-one grows old in a small town?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

jakee

***the poor tend not to live in rural areas as they have no transportaion alvailable to them

And no-one grows old in a small town?

You have now proven you have no idea what the rural us is like

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

jakee

***the poor tend not to live in rural areas as they have no transportaion alvailable to them

And no-one grows old in a small town?

That aside, he didn't fact - check his premise.

[jakee 1,585]

rushmc

You have now proven you have no idea what the rural us is like

The rural US encompasses vastly different geographies. Are you assuming it's all the same as where you live?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

jakee

***You have now proven you have no idea what the rural us is like

The rural US encompasses vastly different geographies. Are you assuming it's all the same as where you live?nope

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,585]

Andy9o8

******the poor tend not to live in rural areas as they have no transportaion alvailable to them

And no-one grows old in a small town?

That aside, he didn't fact - check his premise.

Yeah, to be fair I haven't checked this out but "More than 14 per cent of the rural population (7.5 million people) in the United States of America lived under the poverty line in 2002, compared with 12 per cent of the urban population."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[champu 1]

jakee

I'm not sure how to do the maths on the most efficient spacing (Billvon? Kallend?) but 900mi^2 is only 30mi along the edge. Doesn't sound too far off.

You would place them in a hexagonal close-packed arrangement and, since you have seven, you end up with nice symmetry. You have to overlap them though or else you have pockets slightly further away. How much overlap is a bit less trivial...

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhandle.dtic.mil%2F100.2%2FADA463920&ei=yEs8VMe0KI2qyATy9oDoCw&usg=AFQjCNGcyGLRFyxskeTQA2uDX8il-oJ0Sw&bvm=bv.77161500,d.aWw&cad=rja (see equation 23)

If you set A=0 (this is the area that is triple-covered) and solve for d/r (I couldn't be bothered, but from the plot it looks like about 1.75), this tells you how far apart to locate them given the worst-case allowed distance to any one.

/edit: oops didn't actually answer the question... if r = 10 mi and you space them 17.5 miles apart, that means each overlap is ~16.35 sq miles. there are a total of 12 overlapping regions resulting in about 200 "wasted" square miles. So 7 * Pi * 10^2 - 200 = ~2000 sq mi you can theoretically cover with 7 locations

[jakee 1,585]

rushmc

******You have now proven you have no idea what the rural us is like

The rural US encompasses vastly different geographies. Are you assuming it's all the same as where you live?nope

Yep.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[GeorgiaDon 379]

jcd11235

***Which is worse: a false vote, or a denied vote?

I would argue that a denied vote is worse.I agree.

If a million legitimate votes are cast, and one is fraudulent, that fraudulent one negates 1/1,000,000th of my vote. If I am denied the right to vote, 100% of my vote is removed.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 2,138]

cvfd1399

Quote

But what you're failing to appreciate is what a pawn you're being played for. This is an utterly manufactured issue thunk up by the 50% of professional political operatives who work for the GOP side, and then sold as a product to gullible, good-faith conservative citizens by the ilk of FoxNews et al., knowing fully well that their "consumers" will parrot the talking points for them. They're insulting your intelligence, and you're just saluting going along with it like a good little soldier. Instead of being their willing cannon fodder, you should resent their date-raping you.

Wow insinuate much?

Your are just like Kallend, and have forgotten what was previously stated.

All you have given us is pie in the sky about ensuring that no eligible voter is disenfranchised. No concrete proposal on how to ensure that, just parroting the GOP position which certainly does NOT ensure that. And we know (see billvon's post above) that the GOP has no intention of ensuring that, since the party admits that it wants to disenfranchise the poor and minorities.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lummy 4]

You're right. For some reason, I was thinking of 300x300 miles which was obviously wrong

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[jakee 1,585]

champu

If you set A=0 (this is the area that is triple-covered) and solve for d/r (I couldn't be bothered, but from the plot it looks like about 1.75), this tells you how far apart to locate them given the worst-case allowed distance to any one.

/edit: oops didn't actually answer the question... if r = 10 mi and you space them 17.5 miles apart, that means each overlap is ~16.35 sq miles. there are a total of 12 overlapping regions resulting in about 200 "wasted" square miles. So 7 * Pi * 10^2 - 200 = ~2000 sq mi you can theoretically cover with 7 locations

Cool!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

cvfd1399

There is a DMV about every 10 miles spaced apart in the county, and about 2.5 polling places per square mile....Not very far to travel....

A lot of people consider a twenty mile walk to be pretty far.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 2,138]

rushmc

******There is a DMV about every 10 miles spaced apart in the county, and about 2.5 polling places per square mile....Not very far to travel....

And that's a completely urban area.

Now extrapolate to rural country.

the poor tend not to live in rural areas as they have no transportaion alvailable to them

So the Dakotas, rural Mississippi and Appalachia are now urban, according to you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

Sometimes you write the most absurd drivel.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,575]

I. am. in. awe.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[airdvr 210]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/03/12/the-states-with-the-highest-and-lowest-turnout-in-2012-in-2-charts/

So without doing the math it looks like roughly 40% of the population doesn't bother to vote...at least not in the Presidential election. Where is the cry from the left about that 40% being disenfranchised?

You see it doesn't matter here in the microcosm that is the SC. We have experts from all corners of the earth giving us advice on how our country should be run. Fortunately what happens in here is not quite representative of the real world.

I think some sort of obstacle to voting could be the impetus for increased voter turnout. The 40% aren't interested until you tell them they can't vote.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

So without doing the math it looks like roughly 40% of the population doesn't bother to vote...at least not in the Presidential election. Where is the cry from the left about that 40% being disenfranchised?

Choosing not to vote is not the same as being disenfranchised.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[airdvr 210]

jcd11235

***So without doing the math it looks like roughly 40% of the population doesn't bother to vote...at least not in the Presidential election. Where is the cry from the left about that 40% being disenfranchised?

Choosing not to vote is not the same as being disenfranchised.

What makes you so sure?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

******So without doing the math it looks like roughly 40% of the population doesn't bother to vote...at least not in the Presidential election. Where is the cry from the left about that 40% being disenfranchised?

Choosing not to vote is not the same as being disenfranchised.

What makes you so sure?

Primarily the definition of disenfranchise.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Stumpy 284]

jcd11235

*********So without doing the math it looks like roughly 40% of the population doesn't bother to vote...at least not in the Presidential election. Where is the cry from the left about that 40% being disenfranchised?

Choosing not to vote is not the same as being disenfranchised.

What makes you so sure?

Primarily the definition of disenfranchise.


Nice one.

Never try to eat more than you can lift