"Ten Reasons why People who Support Wind Farms Are Deluded, Criminal or Insane. Which One Are You, Vince Cable?"

[billvon 3,090]

>I would love to see this asked of those who are now forced to live around the
>damned things (I am talking wind)

============================
Survey: Midwesterners not buying ‘wind turbine syndrome’
Midwest Energy News

Posted on 09/05/2014 by Kari Lydersen

People in Iowa, which leads the Midwest in wind energy, are the least likely to believe that wind turbines impact human health, according to a recent survey.

Science has frequently rejected arguments that wind turbines pose a threat to human health. And now the verdict is in both in the courts of legal and public opinion on the matter, according to a recent study and poll.

A bipartisan poll on energy issues released earlier this week found that in six Midwestern states — Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin — only 14 percent of respondents believe wind turbines harm human health.

The survey of 2,477 voters was conducted by Public Opinion Strategies and FM3 on behalf of RE-AMP, which publishes Midwest Energy News.

Among the states surveyed, the lowest percentage of people who believe wind turbines cause health problems (7 percent) was in Iowa, a state that leads the nation in proportion of energy from wind.
===============================
Poll: More People Prefer to live near a Wind Farm as Opposed to Fracking Site

By Forexminute
Jonathan Millet
Apr 14, 2014 5:58PM BST

About three to one persons in Britain would rather live near a wind farm as opposed to a fracking site, according to an opinion poll that was released today.

The study clashes with the stand taken by the Conservative leaders, who are reported to be planning a moratorium that will block installation of more wind farms as part of its 2015 campaign pledges.

The party is advocating for the development of hydraulic fracturing, or more commonly fracking, a controversial technique for extracting oil and natural gas that involves pumping in sand, water and chemicals into shale rocks at high pressure to break them and release trapped fossil fuels.
==================================

>In the end, wind is a wast of capital dollars and the only reason they are being
>built today is a political reason as they have yet to make any money if the tax
>incentives are removed

===============================
Can the American Wind Energy Industry Survive Without the PTC?

By John Tarantino
TriplePundit
Posted December 18, 2013

- The wind production tax credit (PTC) is likely to expire at year’s end, although a revision to the law will keep the pipeline of wind projects moving in 2014.
- Industry analysts project 6,000-10,000 MW of new wind capacity in 2014 as projects begun in 2013 are completed.
- Without the PTC, the American wind market will contract but not collapse, falling to roughly 3,000-7,000 MW per year from a peak of about 13,000 MW in 2012.
- If the PTC expires, the U.S. wind power market will be concentrated in the Interior region (Texas and the Great Plains states), where recent PPA prices indicate wind power is broadly competitive without the tax credit.
================================

[rushmc 23]

jakee

***coming from the true minority that you are in

wind farms are a waste of money
I know you like them but, I bet you are a nimby

Hey rush, I thought said you wanted to discuss the content - so far you're just insulting everyone who disagrees with you.

I'm not the one who wishes everyone that disagrees with me would die

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,571]

Quote

I'm not the one who wishes everyone that disagrees with me would die

And that's your excuse for not engaging with anyone else in the thread either? Grow up.

You said you wanted to discuss content. Discuss it. With anyone.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

jakee

Quote

I'm not the one who wishes everyone that disagrees with me would die

And that's your excuse for not engaging with anyone else in the thread either? Grow up.

You said you wanted to discuss content. Discuss it. With anyone.

Do you now what nimby means?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,571]

Yeah, it's another way for you not to have to discuss content with anyone.

Like (and I'm paraphrasing) 'I don't care what you say that's pro-wind because I bet you're a nimby anyway'.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult. So tell me what you think it means

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,118]

rushmc

What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult. So tell me what you think it means

I certainly wouldn't want a coal fired power plant in my back yard.

Or a coal mine.

Or an oil refinery.

Or a fracking site.

Or a uranium mine.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,571]

rushmc

What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[turtlespeed 226]

jakee

***What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

******What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

It's pretty clear that he's trying to get the player to present a ball to play.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[turtlespeed 226]

jcd11235

*********What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

It's pretty clear that he's trying to get the player to present a ball to play.

So bring out your balls then.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

************What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

It's pretty clear that he's trying to get the player to present a ball to play.

So bring out your balls then.

We're still waiting for rushmc to do that. You should feel free, too. Yours are always easy to hit out of the park.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[turtlespeed 226]

jcd11235

***************What does nimby mean? You posted that i used that as insult.

No I didn't, at least not specifically.

So far you've dismissed posters who disagree with you as Nimbys, radicals and the uninformed -plus of course the thread title. And still no engagement on the content.

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

It's pretty clear that he's trying to get the player to present a ball to play.

So bring out your balls then.

We're still waiting for rushmc to do that. You should feel free, too. Yours are always easy to hit out of the park.

My point hits home a lot, you say. Thank you.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

My point hits home a lot, you say. Thank you.

That's certainly not the most reasonable interpretation of what I wrote.

Feel free to make a topical point. You were, after all, complaining about people not playing the ball. Where's your ball?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[turtlespeed 226]

jcd11235

***My point hits home a lot, you say. Thank you.

That's certainly not the most reasonable interpretation of what I wrote.

Feel free to make a topical point. You were, after all, complaining about people not playing the ball. Where's your ball?

Well - It seems I asked you first.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

******My point hits home a lot, you say. Thank you.

That's certainly not the most reasonable interpretation of what I wrote.

Feel free to make a topical point. You were, after all, complaining about people not playing the ball. Where's your ball?

Well - It seems I asked you first.

Actually, no, you didn't. Look upthread. Then try your very best to make a topical point.

I'm still waiting for someone to defend the claim made in the thread title, given that most Americans favor more emphasis on wind energy, exceeded only by solar energy.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,571]

turtlespeed

Are you going to play the ball or the player?

That's my point, duh.

Rush is holding onto the ball. If he doesn't pass it, there's no game.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,090]

>Do you now what nimby means?

"Not in my back yard."

However, in the case of wind, Americans are very much "in my back yard, please." Right wing sources try to lie about this to make the case that they are hated, cause health problems, are unpopular etc. Facts do not support their claims.

From ARS Cleantechnica:

================================
Americans Overwhelmingly Support Wind Power
April 2014
By David Ward

American-made wind power has long enjoyed popular support across the country. There’s even evidence to suggest that the more wind power there is in a state, the more support wind power receives.

It was surprising then to read recently a claim by the anti-clean energy Heartland Institute that wind power and other renewables’ favorability was on the decline. Let’s look at some examples that say the exact opposite:

-In January, a Navigant Research poll found that not only was wind power viewed favorably by 72 percent of Americans but that number was on the rise.

- In December, a USA Today poll found the high favorability rating of wind power translated into policy preferences as 73 percent of Americans supported continuing tax incentives for wind power and other renewables.

-A University of Texas poll in October revealed 89 percent of Americans want the federal government to focus on developing renewable energy technology.

-Kansas obtains nearly 20 percent of its electricity from wind power; a recent poll there found 91 percent of voters there support using wind power.

This continues a trend of a variety of recent polling data from Illinois to North Carolina to Michigan that demonstrate Americans support wind.

It’s not surprising that this is the case. On top of providing clean, homegrown energy, wind power attracts a tremendous amount of economic benefits. Wind power fosters economic development in all 50 states, drives up to $25 billion a year in private investment to our national economy, has recently supported 80,000 good-paying jobs — 25,000 of which help make up a domestic manufacturing supply chain with over 550 facilities across 44 states — and it saves American consumers money. In fact, the states that use the most wind energy have seen their electricity prices decrease while all other states comparatively have seen their electricity prices increase.

Plus, not only is 72 percent of a wind turbine’s value now made in the USA, compared to 25 percent in 2005, the cost of wind energy dropped 43 percent over the last four years.

Wind power is an American success story that both Republicans and Democrats can be proud of.
====================

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Do you now what nimby means?

"Not in my back yard."

However, in the case of wind, Americans are very much "in my back yard, please." Right wing sources try to lie about this to make the case that they are hated, cause health problems, are unpopular etc. Facts do not support their claims.

From ARS Cleantechnica:

================================
Americans Overwhelmingly Support Wind Power
April 2014
By David Ward

American-made wind power has long enjoyed popular support across the country. There’s even evidence to suggest that the more wind power there is in a state, the more support wind power receives.

It was surprising then to read recently a claim by the anti-clean energy Heartland Institute that wind power and other renewables’ favorability was on the decline. Let’s look at some examples that say the exact opposite:

-In January, a Navigant Research poll found that not only was wind power viewed favorably by 72 percent of Americans but that number was on the rise.

- In December, a USA Today poll found the high favorability rating of wind power translated into policy preferences as 73 percent of Americans supported continuing tax incentives for wind power and other renewables.

-A University of Texas poll in October revealed 89 percent of Americans want the federal government to focus on developing renewable energy technology.

-Kansas obtains nearly 20 percent of its electricity from wind power; a recent poll there found 91 percent of voters there support using wind power.

This continues a trend of a variety of recent polling data from Illinois to North Carolina to Michigan that demonstrate Americans support wind.

It’s not surprising that this is the case. On top of providing clean, homegrown energy, wind power attracts a tremendous amount of economic benefits. Wind power fosters economic development in all 50 states, drives up to $25 billion a year in private investment to our national economy, has recently supported 80,000 good-paying jobs — 25,000 of which help make up a domestic manufacturing supply chain with over 550 facilities across 44 states — and it saves American consumers money. In fact, the states that use the most wind energy have seen their electricity prices decrease while all other states comparatively have seen their electricity prices increase.

Plus, not only is 72 percent of a wind turbine’s value now made in the USA, compared to 25 percent in 2005, the cost of wind energy dropped 43 percent over the last four years.

Wind power is an American success story that both Republicans and Democrats can be proud of.
====================

Sorry Bill
I live next to these things and the people who are closer than I say the same as I
Those renting the land for the turbines rarely live on that land. They are despised by the neighbors and loved by big corp land owner

they double the cost of capital investment per meg generated and cannot be used for base power

They are even shutting these things down overseas as the cost and health issues are now being seen as greater than any supposed benefit

The vast majority of those taking the poll do not live next to them
And that is easy to understand because a very small portion of the population ever will live next to them
I guess those that live by them are disposable

This article (which you again fail to source) was put out by a lobbying group
What do you expect for them?

Now, I do not care about the gov helping explore new techs that may be cleaner but, it is time to stop the wind subsidies. We know what we have and if they are viable they should be able to survive on their own (which they will not)
As of today, no large wind farm has made money

I would say the same for coal and gas subsidies

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[cvfd1399 0]

I have no problem with wind turbine power sources. As long as the government and power companies are not using eminent domain to gather the land to do it. Some states, and power companies have tried it, which have lead some states to sign laws that prevent it.

[rushmc 23]

Jus tto follow up
the linked artice talkes to wind generators and tax insentives and subsidies. Buffet ownd MidAmerican Energy which has hafl the state of Iowa and most likely the largest collection of turbines in the state. Look what he as to say about them

Quote

Big Wind's Bogus Subsidies
Giving tax credits to the wind energy industry is a waste of time and money.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/nancy-pfotenhauer/2014/05/12/even-warren-buffet-admits-wind-energy-is-a-bad-investment

Quote

Despite being famous for touting the idea that the rich don’t pay their fair share of taxes, investor Warren Buffet seems to be perfectly fine with receiving tax breaks for making investments in Big Wind. "I will do anything that is basically covered by the law to reduce Berkshire's tax rate," Buffet told an audience in Omaha, Nebraska recently. "For example, on wind energy, we get a tax credit if we build a lot of wind farms. That's the only reason to build them. They don't make sense without the tax credit."

But while the wind production tax credit may be great for Buffet's bottom line, it's harmful for American taxpayers and energy consumers.

Hmm
I have been saying this for years

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,090]

>I live next to these things and the people who are closer than I say the same as I

Yep. There's a woman in Boulder who has been trying to get the drop zone there shut down for years. She claims the same thing - horrible noise, health problems, safety risks, no benefit. And she knows better than anyone because she lives right there. From a post by a supporter of hers:

"Hey! I know Kim Gibbs, and I resent these negative comments. She is a very smart, highly professional lady who cares deeply about her community, and the quality of life that is being impacted by these noisy, obnoxious airplanes. She has a lot more support than is apparent on this blog. Trust me. You have a formidable adversary!"

Fortunately she has been largely ignored.

>they double the cost of capital investment per meg

Yep. And then have zero fuel cost.

>This article (which you again fail to source) was put out by a lobbying group

In that case here's another one.
=============
From Cleveland.com:


Energy efficiency, renewable energy rules favored by voters, poll finds

John Funk, The Plain Dealer By John Funk, The Plain Dealer

September 05, 2014 at 12:04 PM

Voters favor more wind farms, solar arrays and state rules requiring electric companies to help customers use less electricity through energy efficiency, a new bipartisan poll has found.

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Ohio voters favor the state's renewable energy and energy efficiency mandates that Republican lawmakers just put on ice for two years, a new poll suggests.

Commissioned by a coalition of environmental groups and conducted jointly by two national polling companies, one which works for Republican candidates and the other for Democratic candidates, the poll interviewed 405 registered Ohio voters and has a margin of error of 4.9 percent.

The survey found that voters would favor political candidates by a two-to-one margin who favor more wind and solar energy development over those who think the state's reliance on coal, gas and nuclear power is adequate. A total of 64 percent favored the green candidates while only 31 percent said they would be more likely to vote for candidates supporting traditional energy production.
. . .

- A majority of voters, whether Democrat, Independent or Republican, like the idea of gradually requiring utilities to generate or at least sell more and more power generated by wind, solar and other renewable technologies. About 87 percent of Democratic voters said they favored such renewable growth, 70 percent of independents and 56 percent of Republicans said they were in favor.

- The end of coal-fired power plants is blowing in the wind. Three quarters of all those surveyed said they favored cleaner sources of energy and 91 percent said they supported diversifying how electricity is generated.
=======================


>The vast majority of those taking the poll do not live next to them
>And that is easy to understand because a very small portion of the population
>ever will live next to them
>I guess those that live by them are disposable

Nope. And fortunately your attitude is in the minority. From Northwest Public Radio:

==========================
Poll Finds NW Residents Would Live Near Wind Farms
Dec. 8, 2011

RICHLAND, Wash. – A new survey finds most Northwest residents would not mind seeing a wind farm from their home.

DHM Research asked 1,200 residents in Washington, Idaho and Oregon about their energy concerns. Seventy-five percent said they would not mind living near wind farms. DHM Research’s John Horvick says these results track with previous polls.
=========================

[rushmc 23]

Again bill
Most of those surveyed do not and will not ever live by them
That is a fact! Logistically the the majority of the US population will never see one other than just driving by They just are not built everywhere and for good reason.

So the polls are understandable as those who cast votes have no idea

My mother in law is one who did NOT sign with the wind farm
She is very happy with this decision
She does not like those just past her south property line (just under a 1/2 mile away
They are incredibly noisy
I had no idea
When I am running a tractor helping with the farm, the shadow flicker makes you feel like you are going to puke. It is incredibly disorienting

Airplanes are not the same thing
We had one of those her in Iowa too


Say what you will but I have first hand experince with these things
I thought they were cool until these were built

And, as Buffett says, wind turbines do not make sense if it were not for the tax bennies
Why?

Cause they can not make money and survive on their own

BTW

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

>Do you now what nimby means?

"Not in my back yard."

However, in the case of wind, Americans are very much "in my back yard, please." Right wing sources try to lie about this to make the case that they are hated, cause health problems, are unpopular etc. Facts do not support their claims.

From ARS Cleantechnica:

================================
Americans Overwhelmingly Support Wind Power
April 2014
By David Ward

American-made wind power has long enjoyed popular support across the country. There’s even evidence to suggest that the more wind power there is in a state, the more support wind power receives.

It was surprising then to read recently a claim by the anti-clean energy Heartland Institute that wind power and other renewables’ favorability was on the decline. Let’s look at some examples that say the exact opposite:

-In January, a Navigant Research poll found that not only was wind power viewed favorably by 72 percent of Americans but that number was on the rise.

- In December, a USA Today poll found the high favorability rating of wind power translated into policy preferences as 73 percent of Americans supported continuing tax incentives for wind power and other renewables.

-A University of Texas poll in October revealed 89 percent of Americans want the federal government to focus on developing renewable energy technology.

-Kansas obtains nearly 20 percent of its electricity from wind power; a recent poll there found 91 percent of voters there support using wind power.

This continues a trend of a variety of recent polling data from Illinois to North Carolina to Michigan that demonstrate Americans support wind.

It’s not surprising that this is the case. On top of providing clean, homegrown energy, wind power attracts a tremendous amount of economic benefits. Wind power fosters economic development in all 50 states, drives up to $25 billion a year in private investment to our national economy, has recently supported 80,000 good-paying jobs — 25,000 of which help make up a domestic manufacturing supply chain with over 550 facilities across 44 states — and it saves American consumers money. In fact, the states that use the most wind energy have seen their electricity prices decrease while all other states comparatively have seen their electricity prices increase.

Plus, not only is 72 percent of a wind turbine’s value now made in the USA, compared to 25 percent in 2005, the cost of wind energy dropped 43 percent over the last four years.

Wind power is an American success story that both Republicans and Democrats can be proud of.
====================

Bill - "NIMBYism" is something that your post doesn't mention. Wind power is highly favored by those who aren't around it. Think of aviation - people aren't even against it in general, just when they have incessant noise at all hours.

We could put wind farms offshore, which would go over like a lead balloon to those with ocean views. As with anything, people want to push the cost of perceived beneficial technologies elsewhere. Who can argue that wind farms don't blight the landscape? That they don't make noise? That they don't kill beasts?

Bringing Heartland into everything is insulting. The Audobon Socciety and the American Bird Conservancy aren't heartland. The latter sued the Department of the Interior for its permit system that sets a quota on the number of eagles that can be killed by wind turbines.

It seems as though "Not in Birds' Back Yards" is an acceptable concern. For people, though? A key reason hy stuff gets so inflamed is that groups play each other. As if recognition that there is a point important to the other side would be to admit defeat.

It's unfortunate. There is no "best" for everybody.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Andy9o8 2]

I don't think you realize how beneficial wind turbines are to solar power. That's right - solar. Imagine a line of turbines running for thousands of miles longitudinally - starting at, say, El Paso, and running north along the 106th meridian West all the way to the Canadian border. Stay with me on this. Now, assuming you point all of the turbines them East, and you get them spun up so that they're blowing to the West, that means they'd collectively be generating so much thrust that it would enhance the speed of the Earth's rotation. You'd have successive periods of daylight more frequently, resulting in increased solar power generating capacity.

P.S. I've already got the patent on the idea, so no stealing.