Jimmy Carter "I could have wiped Iran off the map"

[BillyVance 35]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jimmy-carter-i-could-have-wiped-iran-off-the-map/ar-BB6OYi5

You know... those were times we hated the Iranians for kidnapping our embassy staff. I remember the whole deal. And there was a part of me that wished we'd taken more serious action against them but didn't. But even then, I don't think Carter could have won re-election had he done so. He wasn't much of a president.

There would have been consequences on a world stage as a result though...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[champu 1]

Unless you're talking about a small to medium sized coral atoll, it's not as easy as it sounds to "wipe things off the map." Much of Iran sits atop an extensive plateau which would make it particularly difficult to join the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf.

Similarly, "bombing places back to the stone age" is an intractable goal. It's unlikely you'd destroy all post-stone-age technology on the surface, let alone in underground facilities. Even if you did, it wouldn't stay there very long as the inevitable influx of international aid workers would bring modern technology with them.

Finally, I'd like to point out that "glass parking lots" would make terrible parking lots.

[airdvr 210]

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...and when that failed, then I think that was the main factor that brought about my failure to be re-elected. So that's one thing I would change."

When you are graced to live into your 90's people should stop paying attention to things you say.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Boomerdog 0]

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Jimmy Carter "I could have wiped Iran off the map"

After all these years, that dumb peanut farmer still doesn't get it.

He lost because he couldn't lead a country, But then he couldn't lead a starving fly to warm pile of fresh cow paddy.

[BillyVance 35]

airdvr

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...and when that failed, then I think that was the main factor that brought about my failure to be re-elected. So that's one thing I would change."

When you are graced to live into your 90's people should stop paying attention to things you say.

You aint kidding.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Boomerdog

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Jimmy Carter "I could have wiped Iran off the map"

After all these years, that dumb peanut farmer still doesn't get it.

He lost because he couldn't lead a country, But then he couldn't lead a starving fly to warm pile of fresh cow paddy.

Thanks to that "dumb peanut farmer" millions of people no longer live under the threat of river blindness, Guinea worm, trachoma, schistosomiasis, and lymphatic filariasis. Carter may not have been a great president, but I think a strong case can be made that he is the best "ex-president" this country has ever produced. At any rate, I don't know you (Boomerdog) personally, so I may be off base here, but I would bet money that you can't come close to matching Carter's record of accomplishment.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rehmwa 2]

GeorgiaDon

Thanks to that "dumb peanut farmer" millions of people no longer live under the threat of river blindness, Guinea worm, trachoma, schistosomiasis, and lymphatic filariasis. Carter may not have been a great president, but I think a strong case can be made that he is the best "ex-president" this country has ever produced. At any rate, I don't know you (Boomerdog) personally, so I may be off base here, but I would bet money that you can't come close to matching Carter's record of accomplishment.

You are absolutely correct - OUTSIDE the realm of politics, he's done fantastic things and we are fortunate for his contributions to society. Inside of politics he had no idea what he was getting into and he consistently made horrible decisions and was a lousy leader - most likely because he was unrealistic about how reality works. Not surprising for a segment of exceptionally intelligent and idealistic people. Great intentions/terrible results.

His issue now? as he's getting senile, he's feeling compelled to weigh in on political events (he stayed out of it for quite some time, so I have to assume his wiring is going off and now he's not all there anymore) - a good president should actually go into the background and respect those that follow him by not butting in. Clinton gets it, Bush gets it, Carter - he's blown a fuse.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 2]

I think the vilification (not by you; up-thread) of the very elderly generally as presumptively senile and/or not worth being listened to, and of Carter specifically as senile (that would be you) is not well-founded.

Re: very elderly generally - yes, of course many people over, say, age 80 lose a lot of their cognitive faculties, and some do have dementia. But these days many really do not, at least not to the extent that presumptively "nobody should pay attention to what they have to say". I mean, my god, that's just an awful attitude to have toward the elderly.
(For anecdotal example, my parents in their mid-80s, and my aunt at age 90, are still fully with it and able to analyze and articulate lucidly as much as when they were, say age 65.)

Re: Carter - Some of his positions are "out there", but that's really just Jimmy being Jimmy, and always has been, kinda similar to the way, say, Jerry Brown is kinda out there, and always has been.

But in fairness, since it's been a while since I've heard Carter speak at length, I kept an open mind, and looked up a recent interview. Here's about a 4-minute excerpt of one from March 2014 (6 months ago). When you have the time to devote, I suggest watching all of it. In my over-50 layperson's opinion, this does not at all seem to me to be a person affected by dementia.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/jimmy_carter_gets_around_nsa_spying_by_using_old_fashioned_snail_mail.html

[airdvr 210]

Really? 35 years later we get I could have nuked Iran? No shit...any president since Truman can make that statement.

Jimmy is a great humanitarian who has outdone himself in deeds. I think he is haunted by the ghosts of a mediocre at best presidential legacy and tries very hard to make up for it. However, he continues to step on his crank politically.

He does have a future however, in teaching Barry how to make up for his lackluster presidency.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kelpdiver 2]

BillyVance

But even then, I don't think Carter could have won re-election had he done so. He wasn't much of a president.

Even a great leader would have had trouble getting reelected after that term. The financial shocks from post Vietnam and the rise of OPEC would have happened regardless and no one is going to be happen in a term of high inflation.

Tea Party types should bear in mind the one decision Carter did have control over was to keep deficit spending very low, the lowest we had seen in the post WW2 era aside from the last few of the Clinton Administration. Reagan spent our way out of that with IOUs and every President since has taken the same route to poor economies. The EU as a rule took the austerity route in response to 2008 and continues to limp along.

[billvon 3,120]

>Thanks to that "dumb peanut farmer" millions of people no longer live under the
>threat of river blindness, Guinea worm, trachoma, schistosomiasis, and lymphatic
>filariasis.

Yeah, but he didn't kill a lot of Arabs, so he's a dumb peanut farmer who couldn't lead a starving fly to warm pile of fresh cow paddy.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

The actual quote is more revealing than the sound bite. Here's what Carter said:
"I could have wiped Iran off the map with the weapons that we had, but in the process a lot of innocent people would have been killed, probably including the hostages and so I stood up against all that, er, all that advice, and then eventually my prayers were answered and every hostage came home safe and free. And so I think I made the right decision in retrospect, but it was not easy at the time."

Somehow, putting a period after "map" changes the meaning quite a bit:
"I could have wiped Iran off the map."

Of course, such politically motivated editing is par for the course these days. It's a cheap shot, though, as it's trivially easy to crop and rearrange the words anyone speaks to alter the meaning.

It goes without saying that the US could have crushed Iran, militarily. Just imagine what would have happened had Bush Jr. Cheney/Rumsfeld been in office at the time. Would that have been the best course of action? Would that have rescued the hostages? What would the world look like today if that had happened? What if Russia had backed Iran against an American invasion?

I for one am glad when political leaders are aware that military invasion is not the default response to every crisis.

I'm well aware some people who frequent Speaker's Corner never saw a war, or an excuse for war, or a lie in support of a war they didn't love. Given a choice between a diplomatic solution to a problem and 20,000 dead US soldiers/2,000,000 dead foreigners they'll take the dead troops every time, because it's "the American way, dammit".

I do think Carter is wrong about getting re-elected. The problem was, he insisted on speaking truthfully (at least as far as he understood what was true), which at the time (OPEC oil embargo, hostage crisis, etc) was pretty universally depressing. Even worse, all this was the latest in a long string of bad news, notably the Nixon fiasco. His opponent, Teflon Ronnie Reagan, was a master storyteller who never let reality intrude on the "message", and the message he was selling (America is the greatest at everything/God made America as the pinnacle of creation) resonated strongly with an American public sick of depressing news. Carter was vastly smarter than Reagan in many ways, but Reagan was a genius in the skills that matter politically: charisma, the "kindly grandfather" thing, the "one for the Gipper" thing, and mostly knowing what people wanted to hear and giving them that, often with nasty policies wrapped up in the middle where people would swallow them because he came across as a "nice man".

Carter could have walked on water and raised the dead and he would have lost to Reagan. People complain about politicians being liars, but when it comes to politics often being truthful is toxic. The reality you wish was true is more compelling than the reality you know is true, as Reagan knew and Carter did not, and every politician since has either known that or experienced the consequences.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[billvon 3,120]

>Given a choice between a diplomatic solution to a problem and 20,000 dead US
>soldiers/2,000,000 dead foreigners they'll take the dead troops every time,
>because it's "the American way, dammit".

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]I think a strong case can be made that he is the best "ex-president" this country has ever produced.

[Andy9o8 2]

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The best ex-president in the last 50 years? Reagan. He withdrew completely and died of Alzheimers.

Bwahaa! The best historical comment of the day.

[jakee 1,596]

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most likely because he was unrealistic about how reality works. Not surprising for a segment of exceptionally intelligent and idealistic people anyone.

FIFY

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

and of Carter specifically as senile (that would be you) is not well-founded.

you are correct and I was using that very loosely and thus incorrectly - I'd rather say (and I think my post addresses) he's being much more outspoken lately on things he really should have boundaries in place. Something he previously did, but now he seems to be ignoring those boundaries in rather poor form and poor taste.

I do see this quite often with many completely functional people as they get older - the filter just disappears - for whatever reason. but I generalize, I shouldn't as generalizing is really is something I don't like.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Boomerdog 0]

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... but I would bet money that you can't come close to matching Carter's record of accomplishment.

Got me!
Right on that one!

But then I'm not a politician either and have had the unique priviledge to enjoy my career working legally, honestly, and ethically without being under the pall and spectre of going to jail.

And yes you are right. Jimmy Carter has been a great ex-President for all of the work he's done with Habitat for Humanity and the other accomplishments you cite. But in the context of his Presidency, I firmly stand on my initial post.

OBTW in the interest of full disclosure. I voted for Carter in '76. I didn't make the same mistake in '80.

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'm not a politician either and have had the unique priviledge to enjoy my career working legally, honestly, and ethically without being under the pall and spectre of going to jail

There aren't many Presidents to whom that also applies, but I think long-term objective history will rule that for the most part it applied to Carter, too. In fairness, I'd probably say the same thing about Ford. Nobody else in my lifetime. Maybe Ike, sort of, if you exclude the FBI's persecution of suspected Reds.

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]The problem was, he insisted on speaking truthfully (at least as far as he understood what was true), which at the time (OPEC oil embargo, hostage crisis, etc) was pretty universally depressing.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

billvon

>Given a choice between a diplomatic solution to a problem and 20,000 dead US
>soldiers/2,000,000 dead foreigners they'll take the dead troops every time,
>because it's "the American way, dammit".

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.

Or virgins in the afterlife...there really is no difference.

[Boomerdog 0]

Politicians deserve two terms; the first in office and the second in prison.

[grue 1]

lawrocket

The best ex-president in the last 50 years? Reagan. He withdrew completely and died of Alzheimers. Let his Presidential actions speak for themselves and don't go poking at Bush or Clinton.

Similarly, the best president was William Henry Harrison who had the good grace to die of natural causes before he signed anything into law, an ideal that more presidents should aspire to.

cavete terrae.

[Bertt 0]

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millions of people no longer live under the threat of river blindness, Guinea worm, trachoma, schistosomiasis, and lymphatic filariasis

You might have just highlighted the difference between working with people who want to solve problems and working with Congress.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[kallend 2,150]

lawrocket

Reagan was different. He was honest, too.

Ahem.... Iran-Contra, reducing the size of government, “Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do”, totally fabricated story about a Medal of Honor recipient.....

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.