cgriff 0 #26 August 27, 2014 JerryBaumchenAnd I agree. However, according to what I heard on the radio, he did not give it to her in full auto mode. She, apparently, inadvertently switched it over & then started firing. JerryBaumchen The mode is irrelevant. It's a question of body mass and strength... I wouldn't allow a shooter that young and small to fire even a 9mm, regardless of whether it's full auto or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #27 August 27, 2014 JerryBaumchenHi joe, QuoteGiving a 9 YO a full auto Uzi is idiotic. And I agree. However, according to what I heard on the radio, he did not give it to her in full auto mode. She, apparently, inadvertently switched it over & then started firing. JerryBaumchen If the video in the OP is genuine you can see/hear the instructor turn the gun on full auto.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #28 August 27, 2014 JerryBaumchenHi joe, QuoteGiving a 9 YO a full auto Uzi is idiotic. And I agree. However, according to what I heard on the radio, he did not give it to her in full auto mode. She, apparently, inadvertently switched it over & then started firing. JerryBaumchen In the video, he hands her the Uzi, puts it in single shot mode and she then fires one round then he switches it to auto and tells her to fire it. She does and the recoil causes the muzzle to climb up and left.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #29 August 27, 2014 Quote And I agree. However, according to what I heard on the radio, he did not give it to her in full auto mode. She, apparently, inadvertently switched it over & then started firing. The account I read said that he had her fire a single shot first, which is proper, and what was done when I fired an auto at a Vegas range. You had to hit the target as proof of basic control before they would let you first a burst. But the uzi's small size works against kids here. You'd want that 3 shot burst option if you could have it. But back to the primary point we all agree on - 9 year olds and automatics are a poor mix. Some want to extend that to any fire arm, but that's more their agenda than substantiated by the event. I would give a 9yo a screw driver or a hammer, but not a jackhammer. Kids on farms drive tractors all the time....and they do have an accident rate. Safe n Sane fireworks are [fairly] safe for them to light, but M80s are not and we see that in the ER every July. With some DZO exceptions, we don't let 9yos skydive at all - they just aren't able to assess and accept risk yet. This instructor failed her, and has harmed her greatly. He paid an even bigger price for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #30 August 27, 2014 SkyDekker******Quote Keeping children ignorant and overlaying your own fear of guns on them by trying the BAD GUN NEVER TOUCH seems to end up with too much curiosity and add in the ignorance they have been kept in an it is an explosive combination. I don't let my 8 and 10 year olds drink, because it can do them harm. Not because I am afraid of alcohol. I don't think a rapid fire beer would have done much harm to the Darwin winner... Thank you for completely avoiding the actual issue. Keep handing those firearms to kids.....or at least keep pretending it could never happen to anybody you know.... Never has in our family where it is mandatory to respect weapons and to use them from a very early age.. Knowledge is power... Ignorance in some peoples minds though is very blissfull. but tossing in a bunch of fear SCARY GUN... NEVER TOUCH SCARY GUN Does seem to be counter productive to the young who want to play with them and have nothing else to go on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #31 August 27, 2014 QuoteNever has in our family where it is mandatory to respect weapons and to use them from a very early age.. Sorry, making it mandatory for young kids to use weapons is not something I will agree with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #32 August 27, 2014 piisfish They don't belong together. Gun instructor learnt by Darwinism https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cfMzK7QwfrU And this is just SO much safer.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #33 August 27, 2014 >And this is just SO much safer.Crazy Way safer going by body count. (Not sure what the point of that video was, anyway.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,486 #34 August 27, 2014 SkyDekkerQuoteNever has in our family where it is mandatory to respect weapons and to use them from a very early age.. Sorry, making it mandatory for young kids to use weapons is not something I will agree with. There are some places that have wild critters where weapons training at a young age is mandatory - if you want your kids to live.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #35 August 28, 2014 Well what do you think the NRA is going to say? Care to guess? It was a tragic...very tragic accident borne from poor judgement. At best, maybe, and this is a stretch of the adults were going to let this little girl fire a weapon...a single shot .22 short and that is the limit. A lot of firearms owners including myself would not have let a 9 year old child on the range at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #36 August 28, 2014 What if she did it on purpose? Haven't you ever thought of doing something dumb and weird when you were a kid? I dialed 911 when I was a little kid. As soon as I dialed for some dumbass reason I got scared and just hung up, it was too late by then. Cops showed up at my house.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #37 August 28, 2014 stayhighWhat if she did it on purpose? Haven't you ever thought of doing something dumb and weird when you were a kid? I dialed 911 when I was a little kid. As soon as I dialed for some dumbass reason I got scared and just hung up, it was too late by then. Cops showed up at my house. She didn't do it - He did. Watch the video. At approx 18 secs he takes the safety off and tells her to give him one shot then at 24 secs he clearly switches the fire selector to auto and tells her to try it "in full auto". 3 seconds later the muzzle climb and recoil has taken the muzzle up and over her left shoulder with predicatable and tragic results.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwieder 0 #38 August 28, 2014 QuoteShe didn't do it - He did YEP. Your Right. Guns don't kill people......PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE.-Richard- "You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rifleman 70 #39 August 28, 2014 That's not really what I'm saying - there are a lot of people saying that it was an accident, that the little girl might have, through accident or curiosity, switched the weapon to full auto. The simple fact of the matter is that the instructor's own stupidity contributed to his demise as clearly demonstrated by the video at the beginning of this thread. I have no problems with children being taught to use and properly respect firearms (I learned to shoot at an early age) but FFS give the child a firearm that's appropriate for their age and experience.Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #40 August 28, 2014 BoomerdogWell what do you think the NRA is going to say? Care to guess? They have said it on twitter: "7 ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range" via @TeamWON. READ: womensoutdoornews.com/2014/08/7-ways... wow.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #41 August 28, 2014 Yup, read the article. And of course our mainstream press who hates the NRA picked up on it real quick and made some hay with it. Now the rest of the story is the NRA provides a very comprehensive and large firearm safety program. The range downstairs in the national headquarters building in Fairfax, VA,is not only a state of the art, it is staffed with highly competent and trained range safety personnel. There are classrooms for training and no one goes on the range until they take and pass a range safety course and yes there is a test. So if you go to the NRA home page and then click through their firearms safety program, you'll find it's rather extensive. But all that safety is nil against poor judgment and lapses of common sense and when one is around firearms, any compromise of safety and common sense is an invite to an accidental shooting. The NRA; in fact NO ONE, can protect against that. I personally would not want to see young children on the range. Yet young children have shot weapons on ranges and safely as well. One very very tragic accident against the many safe and successful occasions and the everyone gets into a hissy fit and debate. The ensuing debate and the chest beating, kevetching etc. IS NOT about this accident, it's about fueling and justifying the gun control crowd to their position of stricter gun control. And with a willing press, it's the same old reaction, the same old story, the same old bromides, the same old crap. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #42 August 28, 2014 QuoteNow the rest of the story is the NRA provides a very comprehensive and large firearm safety program. The range downstairs in the national headquarters building in Fairfax, VA,is not only a state of the art, it is staffed with highly competent and trained range safety personnel. There are classrooms for training and no one goes on the range until they take and pass a range safety course and yes there is a test. Yet they oppose any laws for the same requirments that they demand on their own range? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #43 August 28, 2014 Exactly what I'm saying, the girl could've just shot the dude out of curiosity. Without thinking that the bullet will actually kill the guy.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #44 August 28, 2014 SkyDekker Except "you" do give cross bared canopies to newbies. At least a couple of people get killed each year because they are on canopies too advanced for their abilities. ???You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #45 August 28, 2014 rwiederQuoteShe didn't do it - He did YEP. Your Right. Guns don't kill people......PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Whose finger was on the trigger? Guns don't kill people, little 9 year old girls in pink shorts kill people. An average of more than 100,000 people are shot in the U.S. every year, averaging 289 per day, of which 86 die (30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention). Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns in America — more than the population of St. Louis. And the gun manufacturers and their lackeys in the NRA laugh all the way to the bank.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #46 August 28, 2014 kallend***QuoteShe didn't do it - He did YEP. Your Right. Guns don't kill people......PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. Whose finger was on the trigger? Guns don't kill people, little 9 year old girls in pink shorts kill people. An average of more than 100,000 people are shot in the U.S. every year, averaging 289 per day, of which 86 die (30 are murdered, 53 kill themselves, two die accidentally, and one is shot in a police intervention). Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns in America — more than the population of St. Louis. And the gun manufacturers and their lackeys in the NRA laugh all the way to the bank. She was a student and made a mistake. He was a teacher and should have been more aware of the consequences of his instructions. Same here.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 August 28, 2014 SkyDekkerQuoteNever has in our family where it is mandatory to respect weapons and to use them from a very early age.. Sorry, making it mandatory for young kids to use weapons is not something I will agree with. I suspect you are arguing against a point never made. His point was it is mandatory in 'his family'. Families (parents) can and should make their own mandatory rules for the kids. I highly doubt the statement was about making it mandatory for everyone regardless of each family's personal preferences. Forcing your personal views on other families is something only the hard right and hard left advocate. that instructor failed that little girl miserably (with poor judgment and even worse instruction) that little girl's parent failed her miserably (by allowing her to train on anything more advanced than a .22 rifle at her age and maturity and physical strength) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cgriff 0 #48 August 28, 2014 jclalor QuoteNow the rest of the story is the NRA provides a very comprehensive and large firearm safety program. The range downstairs in the national headquarters building in Fairfax, VA,is not only a state of the art, it is staffed with highly competent and trained range safety personnel. There are classrooms for training and no one goes on the range until they take and pass a range safety course and yes there is a test. Yet they oppose any laws for the same requirments that they demand on their own range? Not being a member, I can't speak for the NRA, but I can speak for me and say you're damned right I would oppose that. Look at it from a skydiving perspective. Is it better for us to police ourselves, or to have some whuffo two thousand miles away attempt to do so? Now, add to that the fact that, when discussing firearms, the whuffo legislator is PROHIBITED from doing any policing, in addition to being incapable of doing so effectively, and you might begin to understand why laws are not the universal answer our country seems to think they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #49 August 28, 2014 QuoteI suspect you are arguing against a point never made. His point was it is mandatory in 'his family'. Families (parents) can and should make their own mandatory rules for the kids. I highly doubt the statement was about making it mandatory for everyone regardless of each family's personal preferences. Forcing your personal views on other families is something only the hard right and hard left advocate. Every family can set their own rules and make their own things mandatory. I ahve no problem with that concept. Doesn't mean I cannot state that I don't agree with making it mandatory in a family for young kids to use weapons. I can't believe I have to explain this part: that doesn't mean I think the government should be involved in banning it. It is entirely possible to disagree with somebody and NOT want the government to be involved. Quotethat instructor failed that little girl miserably (with poor judgment and even worse instruction) that little girl's parent failed her miserably (by allowing her to train on anything more advanced than a .22 rifle at her age and maturity and physical strength) Agreed. On a larger scale, the conversation as to when the government is responsible to step in to protect the wellbeing of minors is interesting. (Obviously not limited to guns) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boomerdog 0 #50 August 28, 2014 To follow up, the NRA already commented in 2013. http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2013/firearm-safety-in-america-2013.aspx You brought your article, here's mine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
