Riots over a shoting turn into free jordans and 40's

[SkyDekker 1,465]

normiss

I still say we can't say that in re: police shootings.
When a cop shoots and kills, how much faith do you expect citizens to have in the system when it's investigated by his buddies in the same cop shop?

ALL cop involved shootings should be investigated fully outside the blue line from that station up the chain.

Same reason why when I perform forensic network investigations, those are performed entirely outside the scope of my organization that I work directly under. I can't have a boss telling me how to perform or not perform those. It's a conflict of interest risk that cannot be taken due to legalities.
A full legal course MUST be followed and not interfered with in any way. With internet crime, we understood this almost 20 years ago. HR nor any boss over me can NOT interfere with the process so as to not contaminate evidence.

I think cop shops are in dire need of addressing this.

I think cop shops are terrified of adressing this.

[normiss 886]

I think that's true, more so with union help of course.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

ALL cop involved shootings should be investigated fully outside the blue line from that station up the chain.

That's how it's done most all the time! In baton rouge if there is a shooting by the sheriff, the city police or state police will investigate for them. They also conduct an inside investigation obviously, but the next department up does the primary.

That's also how I always see it done in every shooting that involved a death by officer. In fact I have never heard of a shooting where the department that shot someone and killed them was the only ones doing an investigation. Once again your taking one or two shootings and applying it to all the 600,000 active duty officers, when that's not the case.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Anvilbrother

Quote

ALL cop involved shootings should be investigated fully outside the blue line from that station up the chain.

That's how it's done most all the time! In baton rouge if there is a shooting by the sheriff, the city police or state police will investigate for them. They also conduct an inside investigation obviously, but the next department up does the primary.

That's also how I always see it done in every shooting that involved a death by officer. In fact I have never heard of a shooting where the department that shot someone and killed them was the only ones doing an investigation. Once again your taking one or two shootings and applying it to all the 600,000 active duty officers, when that's not the case.

And what we have been saying is that society doesn't trust one cop shop to investigate another cop shop. The Blue Line is perceived to be too strong to allow for a fair investigation.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Not sure why you guys keep using the derogatory term cop shop, but whatever. I will remind you, society, the media, and the people here are projecting the bad of a few onto the over half a million cops that do the job properly every day. That like saying all skydivers are rapists because a couple dozen tandem masters were found guilty of touching passengers inappropriately.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[Andy9o8 2]

Anvilbrother

Not sure why you guys keep using the derogatory term cop shop

Google it yourself. It's a colloquial term for police station; and it's not exclusive to North American usage English. It's also a common term for stores where LEOs go to purchase police-related gear. For example, many FOP offices also have cop shops located under the same roof... that are called "the cop shop" (not unlike the gear stores that are located on many DZs). My own search failed to turn up any presumption that the term is considered derogatory.

[normiss 886]

Never meant as an offense, it's just a common name for the police station from my experience.

To me, it doesn't matter how much nor how little an innocent person dies at the hands of a cop. The way it is currently excused, covered up, authorized, dismissed, and justified needs to change. Or give us the same level of consideration.
Civilians get arrested when they kill someone, details are sorted out later. Why do you get the special treatment?

Maybe I'm wasting my breath and you're 100% correct. You may kill innocents at will. I am wasting my time trying make that point.

uncle. I'll stop resisting. Here.
Thankfully, when I talk to our CoP in town, he's a lot more Friendly Officer than the Us vs. Them Bully cop.

[Anvilbrother 0]

It's pretty obvious with his hate for cops, how he is using the term.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Anvilbrother

Not sure why you guys keep using the derogatory term cop shop, but whatever. I will remind you, society, the media, and the people here are projecting the bad of a few onto the over half a million cops that do the job properly every day. That like saying all skydivers are rapists because a couple dozen tandem masters were found guilty of touching passengers inappropriately.

No, it is the same as having an issue with fellow tandem masters investigating the accusations of rape by other tandem masters and routinely and quickly stating there was no issue with inappropriate touching.

There are good cops and there are bad cops. Good cops don't like busting bad cops, cause it throws a bad light on cops. Hence, things get brushed under the carpet. In rare cases these transgressions include killing another human being. Sometimes it is the lessor offense of "beating the shit" out of some one.

It is this perception, real or not, of this constant brushing under the carpet, that gets people irritated.

[normiss 886]

Desire to do the right thing equals hate to you?
Not wanting to see innocent people murdered is hate to you?
Wanting a complete, full, unbiased investigation into a killing is hate to you?

That's interesting.

[Anvilbrother 0]

Quote

Desire to do the right thing equals hate to you?
Not wanting to see innocent people murdered is hate to you?
Wanting a complete, full, unbiased investigation into a killing is hate to you?

That's interesting.

What's interesting is how full of shit you are. I never said any of that.
Stop trolling normiss.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[champu 1]

Anvilbrother

Quote

ALL cop involved shootings should be investigated fully outside the blue line from that station up the chain.

That's how it's done most all the time! In baton rouge if there is a shooting by the sheriff, the city police or state police will investigate for them. They also conduct an inside investigation obviously, but the next department up does the primary.

That's also how I always see it done in every shooting that involved a death by officer. In fact I have never heard of a shooting where the department that shot someone and killed them was the only ones doing an investigation. Once again your taking one or two shootings and applying it to all the 600,000 active duty officers, when that's not the case.

I think the problem is in cases (and there are admittedly not a ton of these but they are there) where it turns out the person was unarmed and the shooting was ruled as justified anyway, and it was determined that the officer responded according to established procedure. Maybe the person "turned around too suddenly" or "had a dark object in his hand."

It's a bit like when a Vigil would go off inside a plane, or in someone's trunk, or just randomly while sitting on the packing mat, and AAD would, upon review, conclude and report back that the unit performed exactly as designed.

I understand there's tension because there's a person's career on the line and you don't want to dump a process failure on them, but when an unarmed person winds up dead at the hands of police (or more generally any situation where police presence strictly made things worse) you can't say "there's nothing we would do differently on a regular basis" and expect the public to find that palatable.

[Anvilbrother 0]

We are talking humans, not robots. Making split second life decisions on a daily basis. Out of 314 million people in the us a couple dozen get the wrong end of the stick. I'm not mad, that's life. How many other professions kill people? Doctors, bus drivers, pilots, building designers, people who make legal drugs. Hell I'm positive that pharmacists accidentally giving out the wrong drugs kill more people than cops do. Not saying it's right but it's not a freaking massive issue that's spinning out of control.

Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along,

[normiss 886]

I never claimed you did. You do have a comprehension problem throughout this discussion though.

Those are things I want yet you call them hate.
I don't hate cops.
I just don't trust you guys.
Like you don't trust us.

Have fun with your debate here.
The nation as a whole is starting to this problem for what it is, so things will change in some ways.
Might help to back off the anger a tad there.
You don't need your taser in here.

[DanG 1]

Cops do more wrong than just killing people. Beating people, denying them their rights, abusing their authority, lying on the witness stand, running criminal enterprises, and treating people differently because of race, gender, national origin, or disability are also wrong.

Pharmacists don't regularly do those things.

- Dan G

[champu 1]

Anvilbrother

We are talking humans, not robots. Making split second life decisions on a daily basis.

That's exactly my point. A split second is a crap amount of time to have to make a life and death decision, and I understand sometimes it has to be done. However, after an event where a LEO makes the wrong split second decision, and an unarmed person is shot, it's worth reviewing how that split second decision developed.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

ALL cop involved shootings should be investigated fully outside the blue line from that station up the chain..
.
..
.
I think cop shops are in dire need of addressing this.

another example of why UNIONS (in general), especially public unions are a terrible thing

just an overall observation feeding those that repeatedly that cite self interest is inherently evil. well, same group now saying that organized self interest is even worse

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mirage62 0]

Anybody here follow that the police office testified before the grand jury? One talking head (that happen to be a black female) basically said the ONLY reason he would do that is because he has a sympathetic grand jury.

The other talking head said that he might have done it because he and his lawyer felt that they had a strong case to present.

Everything he said can be - and you can bet will be used against him in court.

4 hrs.

I'd hate to be this cop. I never, ever, never would have spoken to grand jury. This issue is being tried in the count of public opinion AND most of the "people" have made up their mind that a cop should not shot and unarmed teenager for any reason.

Remember the TM case? It was basically "This MUST go to court" it went and the same group that insisted that it go is still bitching about the outcome.

1. All cops should have video on their body. ALL.
2. Perhaps the laws sb changed. Under no circumstance can you fire on someone unless you are fired on, no matter how bad of a beating they have given anyone, no matter how bad of a beating they have given the cop. If you won't take an ass whipping (and the chance to be beaten to death while you get it) you don't need to be a cop.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[turtlespeed 226]

mirage62

Anybody here follow that the police office testified before the grand jury? One talking head (that happen to be a black female) basically said the ONLY reason he would do that is because he has a sympathetic grand jury.

The other talking head said that he might have done it because he and his lawyer felt that they had a strong case to present.

Everything he said can be - and you can bet will be used against him in court.

4 hrs.

I'd hate to be this cop. I never, ever, never would have spoken to grand jury. This issue is being tried in the count of public opinion AND most of the "people" have made up their mind that a cop should not shot and unarmed teenager for any reason.

Remember the TM case? It was basically "This MUST go to court" it went and the same group that insisted that it go is still bitching about the outcome.

1. All cops should have video on their body. ALL.
2. Perhaps the laws sb changed. Under no circumstance can you fire on someone unless you are fired on, no matter how bad of a beating they have given anyone, no matter how bad of a beating they have given the cop. If you won't take an ass whipping (and the chance to be beaten to death while you get it) you don't need to be a cop.

Ok - what about under threat of being shot at or stabbed?

Are you saying if you aren't willing to take a knifing o a couple of bullets you have no business being a cop?

Just think of the caliber of cop we would have then . . .

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,138]

turtlespeed

Just think of the caliber of cop we would have then . . .

7.6mm?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

kallend

***

Just think of the caliber of cop we would have then . . .

7.6mm?

No - Psycho.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mirage62 0]

Sorry - I thought it wb obvious I was joking.

I would like to understand more about how the English police handle violet incidents. I'm being serious. I don't believe that they don't have physically aggressive young men, but the numbers support that they don't shot near as many. How many UK Policemen are beat to death, or stab to death (ect) each year. Does the public in the UK support their police at a higher rate because they don't carry guns? Conversely does the public distrust the police just because they have power they abuse?

Just thought but John Kallend you have personal experience, could you comment?

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kallend 2,138]

mirage62

Sorry - I thought it wb obvious I was joking.

I would like to understand more about how the English police handle violet incidents. I'm being serious. I don't believe that they don't have physically aggressive young men, but the numbers support that they don't shot near as many. How many UK Policemen are beat to death, or stab to death (ect) each year. Does the public in the UK support their police at a higher rate because they don't carry guns? Conversely does the public distrust the police just because they have power they abuse?

Just thought but John Kallend you have personal experience, could you comment?

My experience was 40 years ago. We were generally well liked and trusted.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,098]

>Are you saying if you aren't willing to take a knifing o a couple of bullets you have
>no business being a cop?

If you sign up without understanding you might have to take a couple of bullets to protect someone else, you have no business being a cop.

[mirage62 0]

Did a fast search, sure looks like the UK police are getting slaughtered.

71 were shot dead
24 were stab to death

(These were the police officers trying to stop someone from breaking the law)

Of course these numbers were from April 4th 1900 to Sept 22 2013.

Maybe in America if we made owning a gun, carrying a gun a little harder (NOT taking away the right but making damn sure that only people that have passed a good back ground check?) and ENFORCING the laws on the book more of a priority we would all be better.

Google "U.K. policemen deaths"

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little