Amazon 7 #476 August 25, 2014 cvfd1399 ******It wasn't about emotion points it's about people stopping and thinking. You don't have to be armed to be shot by a police officer. No shit..... that does seem to be happening a lot nowadays. Please provide the number of people shot by police per year. If you can please provide if the officer was justified or not in his shooting. You cant spout off sentences like that and not provide the numbers to be discussed. I know that this information is not required to be tracked, but find me a study done by someone credible, hell give me a good guess. You cant come in to a discussion and say things like that, it reminds me of that other guys replies, just one liners to troll the other members. I provided a whole thread for you guys on the subject.. THERE ARE NO NUMBERS... Why you might ask.... it only would happen if it was an unjustified shoot. Guess what... it seems they were ALWAYS justified. Officer BLAM BLAM BLAM seems to fear for his life a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #477 August 25, 2014 cvfd1399The results I could find using this search "how many people are killed by cops each year" yields about 400-500 "justifiable homicides". Are you ok with using that number while discussing the number of people killed by police per year? Keep in mind this is the number of justifiable deaths. I will also keep in mind that this data is not mandatory, and will be willing to double the number if it makes you feel comfortable to 1000 people justifiably killed per year. The fact that we don't even know the answer to this question is a pretty good explanation of why we have a problem. Quote This leaves us with a problem in finding the number of unjustifiable killings. This study found that 95% of the 2011 police shootings were ruled justifiable. And there we have the other part of the problem. We give extreme wide latitude to LEOs in shootings, much more so than we do to civilians. The key difference being that we jail the latter and subject them to trials that cost 50-100k at a minimum. LEOs, otoh, get paid leave, no jail visit, and a free defense in an environment that nearly presumes a righteous shooting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #478 August 25, 2014 cvfd1399Ok according to your link 313 were shot in 2013. I read through and found 205 that were clearly justifiable. The person either shot at police, would not put a weapon down, charged police or hostage with a knife, or was attempting vehicular homicide on the police at the time of being shot, etc. 4 people were killed and it was found that the officer did comit a crime or it was accidental like a bean bag, or taser incident. One officer was charged with manslaughter, one with voluntary manslaughter, and one for wrongful death. One that I remember that bothered me was the kid killed by the cop while holding and pointing an airsoft replica of an ak47. Still the kid did point what appeared to be a weapon at police. The other 104 were written with minimal details like "officers responded to a reported fight where ____ was shot.", or were still under investigation. Lets go ahead and play devils advocate and say that along with the 4 that were charged we will include the 95% justifiable killings from the smith report. Making that 9.2, round it up for good measure making that 10 people shot and killed unjustifiably by cops in 2013. You good with that estimation for further discussion? Who justifies the justifiers? All you've done is circle around and get back to the beginning.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgoose71 0 #479 August 25, 2014 billvon > The people here on Dizzy.com know him really well i'm sure. You're right. People here have no clue who the cop is, but you are positive that the kid was a criminal who committed a strong-arm robbery, because you saw something on the Internet. Like I said, you can claim to be an expert on the kid's motivations, history, state of mind, character etc. But if you do that, you don't have a leg to stand on when you claim "you're just pulling shit out of your ass!' - because you are doing exactly the same thing. And your shit is no better than anyone else's. What part of my statements did I "Pull out of my ass?" At worst I aligned the facts to form a less flattering form of the story for the deceased. MSNBC does it all the time, only usually for anyone thats white or anyone they can claim is white..."There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss." Life, the Universe, and Everything Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,131 #480 August 25, 2014 jgoose71***> The people here on Dizzy.com know him really well i'm sure. You're right. People here have no clue who the cop is, but you are positive that the kid was a criminal who committed a strong-arm robbery, because you saw something on the Internet. Like I said, you can claim to be an expert on the kid's motivations, history, state of mind, character etc. But if you do that, you don't have a leg to stand on when you claim "you're just pulling shit out of your ass!' - because you are doing exactly the same thing. And your shit is no better than anyone else's. What part of my statements did I "Pull out of my ass?" At worst I aligned the facts to form a less flattering form of the story for the deceased. FACTS seem to be remarkably absent from the entire discussion, except that a kid is dead. There's plenty of hearsay and internet memery (yes, I just made up that word). And of course, outright lies from FOX.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,095 #481 August 25, 2014 >What part of my statements did I "Pull out of my ass?" "caved the right side of his face in . . .I don't have a source for the exact quote above." (i.e. pulling shit out of your ass.) >At worst I aligned the facts to form a less flattering form of the story for the >deceased. As the "other side" is "aligning the facts to form a less flattering form of the story for the cop." If you've decided that neither attempt is "pulling shit out of your ass" then that's fine. But again, if you decide that one side is just "aligning facts differently" and the other is "pulling shit out of their ass" when they do the same thing, you're not going to be taken seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #482 August 25, 2014 You were a cop you said right? Would you shoot a person if he was shooting you, would you shoot a person that was holding a gun, and would not put it down, would you shoot a person that was stabbing someone, or driving his car at you to kill you? That is why those cases were justified on wiki, and myself when I read all those reports. The others were missing information or still under investigation, and I will give you the fact that those vague ones might be justified by the investigating department with a bias towards their friends, but 2/3 were plain as day clear cut. So at most we have 104 killings that are suspicious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #483 August 25, 2014 STOP RESISTING!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #484 August 25, 2014 I'm not saying anything the cops did or did not do is right, but let's say the cops killed 300 people per year out of negligence,(missed target, got scared and shot, etc) I'm not talking straight up murder. There are between 780,000, and 1.1 million police in the us. There are about 834,000 active doctors in the us as of 2012. They kill on average 225,000 people per yea via iatrogenic causes, why no outrage on doctors in the us killing all these people. Doctors are also charged with keeping you safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #485 August 25, 2014 QuoteSTOP RESISTING!!!! STOP TROLLING! If you don't have anything better to do please review that wiki page or do anything other than that to further the discussion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,095 #486 August 25, 2014 >They kill on average 225,000 people per yea via iatrogenic causes, why no >outrage on doctors in the us killing all these people. ?? First off, most of those iatrogenic causes are risks that the patient accepts. "The only way you can survive more than a year with this cancer is very aggressive chemotherapy, but I have to tell you that your risk of death from infection during chemo is almost 10%. Still want to do it?" Secondly, of the cases where the doctor is at fault through either negligence, failure to disclose, greed or malice (very rare) they ARE greeted with outrage, huge lawsuits, loss of licensing and even criminal charges. =========== Queens doctor who sold prescription meds out of Flushing office convicted of manslaughter BY Shayna Jacobs NEW YORK DAILY NEWS Friday, July 18, 2014, A doctor who peddled prescription pills to addicts out of a basement office in Queens was convicted Friday of manslaughter, reckless endangerment and dozens of related counts following a trial that spanned nearly four months. . . The jury found Li guilty of causing the deaths of Joseph Haeg, 37, and Nicholas Rappoid, 21, who overdosed after buying pills from the crooked doctor. Prosecutors described the two as victims of Li’s greed. Li pocketed nearly $500,000 over roughly two-and-a-half years of illegally selling pills, mostly Oxycodone and Xanax, from his clinic in Flushing, trial evidence revealed. ============ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #487 August 25, 2014 They are not saying things like aggressive care. It's straight up preventable malpractice. http://www.propublica.org/article/how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #488 August 25, 2014 I have yet to see a case of a doctor shooting someone in the face. For anything remotely or possibly justifiable. I'm sorry if you feel disagreeing with you is trolling, it isn't. We STILL have no police report. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #489 August 25, 2014 You know this entire discussion is just like the TM debate. One side-cops are all motherfuckers (sub "anyone w a gun") Other side - the punk got what he deserves. No one has any facts other than John Kallend much repeated "we know he's dead" which is true. I had no idea John was a cop but I bet he would and prob did get his scrawny little ass beat, and never shit anyone :p For all you folks so sure one was a thug or the other was a trigger happy cop. Fuck off. You don't have a clue. Get a life.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #490 August 25, 2014 This is nothing like the Trayvon shooting. Trayvon wasn't shot by a cop. Trayvon's case was taken to court and proven to be self defense during a physical attack. Fortson, there is no reason to tell us to fuck off. Love you brother, but god damn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #492 August 25, 2014 QuoteThis is nothing like the Trayvon shooting. Trayvon wasn't shot by a cop. Trayvon's case was taken to court and proven to be self defense during a physical attack. So Zimmerman gets a trial and found out to be self defense, but without a trial you and kallend and amazon have shown that you are god damn positive the cop wasn't defending himself and is an out right murderer. Your right this is nothing like the travon case..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #493 August 25, 2014 cvfd1399 Quote This is nothing like the Trayvon shooting. Trayvon wasn't shot by a cop. Trayvon's case was taken to court and proven to be self defense during a physical attack. So Zimmerman gets a trial and found out to be self defense, but without a trial you and kallend and amazon have shown that you are god damn positive the cop wasn't defending himself and is an out right murderer. Your right this is nothing like the travon case..... OOOOOPS you are assuming..... BUTT... if the community is used to cops being VERY lopsided in their application of the law based on race... they only make their jobs much harder. In this case we do not know.. The young Mister Brown... we do know.... is dead. If the only thing you have in your tool kit is FEAR and a gun.... a lot of police are erring on the side of killing the human being standing in front of them rather than acting as a human being. Personally I am not in need of that kind of karma... where a few years later the cop decides to suck some lead our of his service pistol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #494 August 25, 2014 Your comprehension is weak. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #495 August 25, 2014 I'm sorry, your posts are never direct, and only redirect back towards others, so answer me this. Do you THINK this was a justifiable shooting based off your your personal knowledge of the case and gut feelings? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #496 August 25, 2014 Ok what part of your ok with Zimmerman getting a trial and being found innocent, but your claiming this cop is guilty before a trial did I miss? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #497 August 25, 2014 Gut feelings?? Are you kidding me???? Cops are not always right because they are cops. Given the lack of a police report, a 911 call, photos of any evidence, 4 different stories told by the local cop shop, and the outright lie of the x-ray, what, exactly IS there to believe in any way??? The short video of a kid pushing someone in a store? What does that show? Exactly? The cops have continually stepped on their own dicks, yet you claim with zero evidence it's justified? You must be a cop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #498 August 25, 2014 normiss Gut feelings?? Are you kidding me???? Cops are not always right because they are cops. Given the lack of a police report, a 911 call, photos of any evidence, 4 different stories told by the local cop shop, and the outright lie of the x-ray, what, exactly IS there to believe in any way??? The short video of a kid pushing someone in a store? What does that show? Exactly? The cops have continually stepped on their own dicks, yet you claim with zero evidence it's justified? You must be a cop. ^^^^^^^^^ What he said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #499 August 25, 2014 No sir, and I'm not sure why you are so angry, everyone has a gut feeling and an opinion. Why is it so hard for you guys to express your opinions, why are you so afraid to be wrong. I'll start off. I think that most cops are genially doing their job properly, and you have a few cracked eggs that are out there to do bad things, they are human. That said I believe this cop was defending himself, but it wouldn't supprise me that it wasn't the case and the police department and media were twisting the story the whole time. As I get older I feel like governemnt and media are both deceptive in their true actions and what they end up telling us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 883 #500 August 25, 2014 Again, Chad, you're lacking in comprehension. I'm not angry, I just think excessive killings of our citizens by an army of cops has gotten out of hand and the interaction / relationship between cops and civilians needs to be completely stripped and rebuilt. Your last sentence has a lot to do with that IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
