Michele Bachmann

[RonD1120 62]

Amazon

Dig deep down within your self and ask if the Lord would be vilified by your fellow travelers as a leftist liberal.

You are confusing politics and Christian spirituality. From the Christian perspective it makes no difference if you are liberal or conservative.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,132]

>How the fuck are you defining the centre?

Most people define "center" as "where I am." I've talked to evangelical environmentalists and feminists who feel that both parties are far, far to the right. One of these, a staunch environmentalist, was of the opinion that since both republicans and democrats allowed nuclear power plants to operate, they were nothing more than tools of the right wing military/industrial complex.

[jakee 1,610]

Quote

>How the fuck are you defining the centre?

Most people define "center" as "where I am."

I'd considered that, but it doesn't quite fit since it would mean Ron wanted a government even more right wing than him.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 284]

RonD1120

Both of our political parties are left of center. I would like our government to be right of center.

That's hilarious. You really need to travel a bit.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 3,132]

>but it doesn't quite fit since it would mean Ron wanted a government even more
>right wing than him.

Well, he does; he's said that. (Of course once he started to lose his entitlements I think he'd change his mind pretty fast.)

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>but it doesn't quite fit since it would mean Ron wanted a government even more
>right wing than him.

Well, he does; he's said that. (Of course once he started to lose his entitlements I think he'd change his mind pretty fast.)

My earned and entitled benefit, SS, will not be lost. That is assuming the federal government doesn't completely collapse. Of course, in today's liberal chaos that could happen.

What difference would it make? Rest assured, "A country boy can survive." I've gone years, back in the 70's, with little to no reported income. Keep in mind, one of The Seven Laws of Money by Michael Phillips states, there are worlds without it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,132]

>My earned and entitled benefit, SS, will not be lost.

In a right-wing government that was much farther to the right than the current GOP? The current GOP (the ones you think are left wing) are already demanding cuts to social security and medicare. Go farther right and all the "takers" would be very quickly cut from the government teat. You'd approach the far right wing ideal of a tiny government that does not concern itself with the general welfare of the people of the United States.

(I know, you're not a "taker," you are entitled to it, you paid for it etc etc. Everyone receiving government benefits believes that.)

[headoverheels 334]

RonD1120

I've gone years, back in the 70's, with little to no reported income.

Sounds like criminal tax evasion. Was it?

[RonD1120 62]

billvon

>My earned and entitled benefit, SS, will not be lost.

In a right-wing government that was much farther to the right than the current GOP? The current GOP (the ones you think are left wing) are already demanding cuts to social security and medicare. Go farther right and all the "takers" would be very quickly cut from the government teat. You'd approach the far right wing ideal of a tiny government that does not concern itself with the general welfare of the people of the United States.

(I know, you're not a "taker," you are entitled to it, you paid for it etc etc. Everyone receiving government benefits believes that.)

It is what it is. All I can do is vote and maintain my connections in my local support community. Remember, I left the liberal FL environment.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

headoverheels

***I've gone years, back in the 70's, with little to no reported income.

Sounds like criminal tax evasion. Was it?

Not at all. We had a mountain community in Taos, NM with a pretty good barter and trade system. There were also 3 active communes in the area at the time.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Stumpy 284]

I'm guessing you understand the irony about complaining how your tax dollars are spent when you spent possibly significant portions of your adult life not paying any, and are now receiving benefits?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[RonD1120 62]

Stumpy

I'm guessing you understand the irony about complaining how your tax dollars are spent when you spent possibly significant portions of your adult life not paying any, and are now receiving benefits?

Four or five years is not a significant portion of my life. Irony, so what? I'm concerned about where we are going not so much where I've been. As I have stated before, I bought into liberalism until I realized that it is destructive. The real hatred of it came when I had to spend the last ten of my working years in a liberal environment.

The main problem now is that we have gone from liberal philosophy into abject socialism and anti-Americanism. I spent 4.5 years in the military when socialism was the system of the enemy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

I'm starting to understand you in bits and pieces. You equate "liberal" with the shitty work environment your experienced as a drug counselor. I can understand now why the word, to you, means everything you don't like.

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

I'm starting to understand you in bits and pieces. You equate "liberal" with the shitty work environment your experienced as a drug counselor. I can understand now why the word, to you, means everything you don't like.

That is a major part of my reasoning. I see liberalism as a desire to be mediocre. In my social service field ambition was frowned upon. I was a threat and was told so by a manager in a domestic violence program where I was on the crisis response team.

The incentive to get ahead must be tempered with the reality that the status quo must be maintained. For me, that is living in a counterproductive environment.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I see liberalism as a desire to be mediocre.

I don't consider myself a liberal, but you surely would. I strive to excel at everything I do, and often succeed. I have no desire to be mediocre for either myself, or my country.

I think what you experienced was bureaucracy, not liberalism. Bureaucracy is not political.

- Dan G

[jakee 1,610]

RonD1120

The real hatred of it came when I had to spend the last ten of my working years in a liberal environment.

Ron, you do realise how utterly stupid your complaints about divisiveness are when you say things like this, right?

In this thread you have stated that you don't think bipartisanship is useful, you vote for candidates on the right of the Republican Party and you hate liberalism... But you want everyone else to stop being so divisive and compromise. Something is very twisted inside your brainf that makes sense to you!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

Quote

I see liberalism as a desire to be mediocre.

I don't consider myself a liberal, but you surely would. I strive to excel at everything I do, and often succeed. I have no desire to be mediocre for either myself, or my country.

I think what you experienced was bureaucracy, not liberalism. Bureaucracy is not political.

True, bureaucracy was a factor. However, I learned that I had to guard my words. Another way of saying, I had to be a phony to keep my job. Therefore, I tended to hang with the black folks. I found them to be open and honest. There was no need for game play. Black folk keep it real.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

True, bureaucracy was a factor. However, I learned that I had to guard my words. Another way of saying, I had to be a phony to keep my job. Therefore, I tended to hang with the black folks. I found them to be open and honest. There was no need for game play. Black folk keep it real.

Can you give an example of what conservative values were not welcome in your liberal workplace?

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,600]

Well, that one I can understand. I spent years working in aerospace in Texas (defense-heavy industry, even though my particular contract (space) had nothing to do with defense. I didn't feel free to discuss my views, even though conservatives clearly did.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DanG 1]

Quote

Well, that one I can understand. I spent years working in aerospace in Texas (defense-heavy industry, even though my particular contract (space) had nothing to do with defense. I didn't feel free to discuss my views, even though conservatives clearly did.

I experience that currently, working in the defense industry, it is assumed everyone is a Christian Republican. I prefer not to talk about religion or politics at work anyway, although a lot of people don't seem to have that problem. I was wondering, from Ron, what basic Conservative values he was not comfortable talking about, and how he feels those differ from basic Liberal values. I don't think there is that much of a difference at the core level, the debate seems to be more about how core American values are realized.

- Dan G

[ryoder 1,590]

wmw999

Well, that one I can understand. I spent years working in aerospace in Texas (defense-heavy industry, even though my particular contract (space) had nothing to do with defense. I didn't feel free to discuss my views, even though conservatives clearly did.

Wendy P.

Funny thing: In the late '80's I was working at General Dynamics / Fort Worth. (This plant now belongs to Lockheed Martin). It seemed like every "blue-badge" (salaried white-collar) employee there was a Republican. And every "green-badge" (unionized hourly blue-collar) employee was a Democrat.

Now since this was in the era of the Reagan defense spendorama, so it seemed really weird that those union guys did not appreciate that the GOP was responsible for creating many of those defense jobs.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 3,132]

>I spent years working in aerospace in Texas (defense-heavy industry, even
>though my particular contract (space) had nothing to do with defense. I didn't feel
>free to discuss my views, even though conservatives clearly did.

I had the same experience working at Grumman Aerospace years ago. I almost got into a shouting match for expressing the opinion that the US should not have shot down the Iranian airliner. (At the same time Rush Limbaugh would be playing on several people's radios in their cubicles.)

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

Quote

True, bureaucracy was a factor. However, I learned that I had to guard my words. Another way of saying, I had to be a phony to keep my job. Therefore, I tended to hang with the black folks. I found them to be open and honest. There was no need for game play. Black folk keep it real.

Can you give an example of what conservative values were not welcome in your liberal workplace?

Christian belief and values mostly. Paper work had more priority than the clients. The attitude generally in mental health, homeless housing and substance use disorder programs is make the funding flow. Clients are a means to an end.

In the domestic violence program, men were expected to be completely subservient. The idea that a program aimed at working with the fathers, teaching nurturing principles, was an anathema. I was a supervisor for the Crisis Response Team and my female manager refused to meet with me 1:1. Furthermore, she instructed my team to spy on me. They found that to be unethical and reported it to me. Eventually, I was forced to resign.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[riggerrob 644]

Ancient Indian proverb: walk a mile in your enemy's moccasins before you criticize him. Then you are a mile away and you have his shoes!

[headoverheels 334]

RonD1120

******I've gone years, back in the 70's, with little to no reported income.

Sounds like criminal tax evasion. Was it?

Not at all. We had a mountain community in Taos, NM with a pretty good barter and trade system. There were also 3 active communes in the area at the time.

Barter is taxable.