A Quote That Still Should Ring True

[rushmc 23]

....but does not under this admin

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"There is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war." –George Washington, Fifth Annual Message, 1793

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

-President Dwight D. Eisenhower (R), 1961 Farewell Speech

[rushmc 23]

Andy9o8

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This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

-President Dwight D. Eisenhower (R), 1961 Farewell Speech

the irony of this quote in todays world was not missed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

You know Zapp, once I thought you were a big pompous buffoon. Then I realized that inside, you were just a pitiful child. But now I realize that outside that child is a big pompous buffoon!

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 4]

You might want to read that entire speech.

The first thing you should note is that in 1793 the US had the military might of an average Boy Scout troop and in 2014 the US military is unquestionably the most powerful on the planet.

The second thing you should note is how Washington uses the phrase militia.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 62]

Andy9o8

Quote

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

-President Dwight D. Eisenhower (R), 1961 Farewell Speech

President Eisenhower had won a world war and presided over two terms of peace and prosperity. Although astute and wise regarding the military-industrial complex, he and the country were relaxed.

Now we have BHO, Islamic terrorism, social unrest throughout our nation, overlapping crises and a do nothing Congress. We have to be prepared militarily.

IMO, military preparation means unlimited budget for USSOCOM.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

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Now we have BHO

What does that have to do with military budgets?

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...Islamic terrorism...

How many Americans have been killed, in America, since 9/11 by Islamic terrorism?

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social unrest throughout our nation

Hmm, I haven't seen anything worse than a bunch of people bitching on the internet and talk radio. What unrest are you talking about?

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overlapping crises

If you're referring to crises in Syria, Ukraine, and Iraq, then I agree. We need to be prepared for those things to spill out or affect our interests.

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and a do nothing Congress.

What does that have to do with military budgets?

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IMO, military preparation means unlimited budget for USSOCOM.

I hope you're ready for your taxes to go way, way up.

- Dan G

[GeorgiaDon 380]

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IMO, military preparation means unlimited budget for USSOCOM.

I assume you are prepared to pay unlimited taxes to support that.

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Now we have BHO, Islamic terrorism, social unrest throughout our nation...

I hold you, those of your ilk, and those who spread bullshit to the gullible so as to enhance their own bottom line more responsible for the social unrest than I do BHO.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Bertt 0]

There was way more social unrest in the '60s than now. The conflict between radical Islam and the western democracies began a long time before BHO came on the scene. Some of you guys are giving Obama too much credit for his influence on world affairs. If you want to argue that he should be doing something differently, make that argument and I'm pretty sure I'll agree with you, but don't blame him for stuff he didn't start.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[Amazon 7]

rushmc

....but does not under this admin

Quote

"There is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war." –George Washington, Fifth Annual Message, 1793

Perhaps that is something to remember to all those who style themselves as being part of that whole second amendment...

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A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The militias of that time met.. and trained for defense of their communities. I think that is lost on most of the numnutz running around Target stores or other businesses with their AR-15's slung over their backs.

[Boomerdog 0]

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The first thing you should note is that in 1793 the US had the military might of an average Boy Scout troop and in 2014 the US military is unquestionably the most powerful on the planet.

In 1793, the United States was a long way from being a superpower. In spite of their defeat on this soil, Britain was still a very credible superpower.

Then again, the strength of the US military in 1793 was a bit more than an average Boy Scout troop. And of course the Boy Scouts did not exist in 1793. So the analogy of one existent group in 1793 to a another group that did not exist in 1793...well, maybe that's not a good analogy.

[quade 4]

Boomerdog

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The first thing you should note is that in 1793 the US had the military might of an average Boy Scout troop and in 2014 the US military is unquestionably the most powerful on the planet.

In 1793, the United States was a long way from being a superpower. In spite of their defeat on this soil, Britain was still a very credible superpower.

The US didn't defeat the Brits. The US simply outlasted the mercenaries the Brits hired. When the Brits decided to stop wasting money, the war ended. In that regard, this is pretty much the same thing that just happened TO the US in the Middle East.

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Then again, the strength of the US military in 1793 was a bit more than an average Boy Scout troop. And of course the Boy Scouts did not exist in 1793. So the analogy of one existent group in 1793 to a another group that did not exist in 1793...well, maybe that's not a good analogy.

Or . . . it was damn near perfect. The US's main defense at the time was the Atlantic ocean.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Boomerdog 0]

Yup...those are Eisenhower's quotes verbatim. Now what do you take from all of that?

I'd be truly interested and that's far from a sarcastic statement.

[Andy9o8 2]

Boomerdog

Yup...those are Eisenhower's quotes verbatim. Now what do you take from all of that?

I'd be truly interested and that's far from a sarcastic statement.

That from 1961 through the present day, really without pause, Ike's warnings have been honored only in the breach, and the US could cut one-third of its military budget, and use that money at home (so that you and I could fight over who gets it ), and still keep our children safe in their beds.

[billvon 3,120]

>President Eisenhower had won a world war and presided over two terms of peace
>and prosperity. Although astute and wise regarding the military-industrial
>complex, he and the country were relaxed.

If you think that his terms (1953-1961) didn't have social unrest throughout our nation, or was an era of peace and prosperity, or was free from crises - you didn't live through those times.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Bertt

There was way more social unrest in the '60s than now. The conflict between radical Islam and the western democracies began a long time before BHO came on the scene. Some of you guys are giving Obama too much credit for his influence on world affairs. If you want to argue that he should be doing something differently, make that argument and I'm pretty sure I'll agree with you, but don't blame him for stuff he didn't start.

While I agree with you, I fail to see why you directed your comments at me. What did I blame BHO for in my post?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]The militias of that time met.. and trained for defense of their communities.

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

....but does not under this admin

Quote

"There is a rank due to the United States, among nations, which will be withheld, if not absolutely lost, by the reputation of weakness. If we desire to avoid insult, we must be able to repel it; if we desire to secure peace, one of the most powerful instruments of our rising prosperity, it must be known that we are at all times ready for war." –George Washington, Fifth Annual Message, 1793

So on one end, you have the notion that appearing weak will invite attack. So even though we still outspend most of the world combined, and even though more substantial spending during the height of the Cold War resulted in a force that couldn't handle a bunch of rice farmers, and even though we have the ability to nuke any place on earth, Obama is inviting doom unless we spend a quarter trillion more dollars per year.*

(* but we're still going to fume at the mouth about all the deficit spending that we can attribute to his administration. Put less kindly, anyone complaining that Obama is making us weak better shut the fuck up about deficits or debt)

Going to the other end...we know absolutely without any doubt that we don't have the money to spend on this military awesomeness. If we don't start dialing that down, or find someone (either other nations or us the taxpayers) to start paying more, we go bankrupt and not very far from now, and then we will only be able to afford a Coast Guard full of sailboats.

It's as sane as buying travel insurance every day you leave the house.

[jakee 1,596]

Andy9o8

That from 1961 through the present day, really without pause, Ike's warnings have been honored only in the breach, and the US could cut one-third of its military budget, and use that money at home (so that you and I could fight over who gets it ), and still keep our children safe in their beds.

Only one?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi bill,

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If you think that his terms (1953-1961) didn't have social unrest throughout our nation

I lived through the years of his administration. I do not recall much social unrest; other than things such as Little Rock in '57. I will leave that to the historians.

However, I do recall the recession of 1958:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1958

In 1958 my dad was a house painter and the only work he & the guy he worked for could find was in Anchorage. That's a long way from Portland, OR. But they took the jobs.

JerryBaumchen
Class of '58