Couple in Las Vegas Killings Embraced Anti-Government Ideology

[rushmc 23]

jclalor

******"Thank you FOX News for enabling these people. Thank you Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and all the other Hate Talk Radio stars for feeding their paranoia. Thank you for helping the NRA turn America into a country filled with guns and people prepared to use them out of the fears you've encouraged for political and personal gain.

Thank you Republican Party for allowing these people to drive your anti-government agenda. Thank you for repeatedly giving them aid and political cover.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

So, who enabeled the Gabby Gifford shooter?

You know, the left wing nut who shot her?

Your short sighted comment is sad at best

It's interesting that one of the best arguments I've heard in favor of concealed weapons is from this very story, yet I've heard nobody, including you, mention it. The civilian killed in the Wallmart had pulled out his own weapon and was approaching the male shooter when the shooters wife shot and killed him. This distraction may have been enough to save lives. This is from eyewitness accounts, one of them being the friend of the deceased who was there.

I really hate having to help you argue your case.

Yes
He did not know there were two of them and she came up behind him
the police there are calling this guy a hero

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

*********"Thank you FOX News for enabling these people. Thank you Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and all the other Hate Talk Radio stars for feeding their paranoia. Thank you for helping the NRA turn America into a country filled with guns and people prepared to use them out of the fears you've encouraged for political and personal gain.

Thank you Republican Party for allowing these people to drive your anti-government agenda. Thank you for repeatedly giving them aid and political cover.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

So, who enabeled the Gabby Gifford shooter?

You know, the left wing nut who shot her?

Your short sighted comment is sad at best

It's interesting that one of the best arguments I've heard in favor of concealed weapons is from this very story, yet I've heard nobody, including you, mention it. The civilian killed in the Wallmart had pulled out his own weapon and was approaching the male shooter when the shooters wife shot and killed him. This distraction may have been enough to save lives. This is from eyewitness accounts, one of them being the friend of the deceased who was there.

I really hate having to help you argue your case.

Yes
He did not know there were two of them and she came up behind him
the police there are calling this guy a hero

Had they not had a chance to kill other bystanders yet? Sounds like this guy got himself killed because he was had a gun, others without a gun didn't get killed.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

************"Thank you FOX News for enabling these people. Thank you Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and all the other Hate Talk Radio stars for feeding their paranoia. Thank you for helping the NRA turn America into a country filled with guns and people prepared to use them out of the fears you've encouraged for political and personal gain.

Thank you Republican Party for allowing these people to drive your anti-government agenda. Thank you for repeatedly giving them aid and political cover.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

So, who enabeled the Gabby Gifford shooter?

You know, the left wing nut who shot her?

Your short sighted comment is sad at best

It's interesting that one of the best arguments I've heard in favor of concealed weapons is from this very story, yet I've heard nobody, including you, mention it. The civilian killed in the Wallmart had pulled out his own weapon and was approaching the male shooter when the shooters wife shot and killed him. This distraction may have been enough to save lives. This is from eyewitness accounts, one of them being the friend of the deceased who was there.

I really hate having to help you argue your case.

Yes
He did not know there were two of them and she came up behind him
the police there are calling this guy a hero

Had they not had a chance to kill other bystanders yet? Sounds like this guy got himself killed because he was had a gun, others without a gun didn't get killed.

I guess you will have to address the police there'
They are the ones calling him a hero

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

This guy got himself killed attempting to be a hero.

What he forgot in his little Walter Mitty fantasy was when he went up against Pumpkin and Yolanda is that he's not Samuel L. Jackson and doesn't have a wallet with the words "Mother Fucker" on it.

The cops calling this guy a hero are pretty much just being polite and having some sympathy for his survivors. It would be pretty rude to call the guy out for inserting himself into a situation he obviously didn't have situational awareness of.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mpohl 1]

You mean the same kind of police that threw a flash grenade into a child's playpen at night here in Georgia?

Real upstanding and trustworthy public servants. Those guys and their ilk calling someone a hero makes it immediately suspicious.

Quote

I guess you will have to address the police there'
They are the ones calling him a hero

[regulator 0]

quade

This guy got himself killed attempting to be a hero.

What he forgot in his little Walter Mitty fantasy was when he went up against Pumpkin and Yolanda is that he's not Samuel L. Jackson and doesn't have a wallet with the words "Mother Fucker" on it.

The cops calling this guy a hero are pretty much just being polite and having some sympathy for his survivors. It would be pretty rude to call the guy out for inserting himself into a situation he obviously didn't have situational awareness of.

At least he fucking tried to help. He didnt sit behind his computer and armchair quarterback what should have happened. Perhaps one day you can grow some testicles yourself.

[kallend 2,117]

regulator

***This guy got himself killed attempting to be a hero.

What he forgot in his little Walter Mitty fantasy was when he went up against Pumpkin and Yolanda is that he's not Samuel L. Jackson and doesn't have a wallet with the words "Mother Fucker" on it.

The cops calling this guy a hero are pretty much just being polite and having some sympathy for his survivors. It would be pretty rude to call the guy out for inserting himself into a situation he obviously didn't have situational awareness of.

At least he fucking tried to help. He didnt sit behind his computer and armchair quarterback what should have happened..

And what did that earn him? An early grave.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

Quote

At least he fucking tried to help.

Understood.

However, sometimes the desire to help doesn't mean somebody is qualified to help. He may have been qualified to shoot a gun. He may have been incredibly proficient at it. That said, he clearly didn't understand the situation he inserted himself into and in that respect he wasn't qualified to perform the task he was attempting.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 226]

kallend

******This guy got himself killed attempting to be a hero.

What he forgot in his little Walter Mitty fantasy was when he went up against Pumpkin and Yolanda is that he's not Samuel L. Jackson and doesn't have a wallet with the words "Mother Fucker" on it.

The cops calling this guy a hero are pretty much just being polite and having some sympathy for his survivors. It would be pretty rude to call the guy out for inserting himself into a situation he obviously didn't have situational awareness of.

At least he fucking tried to help. He didn't sit behind his computer and armchair quarterback what should have happened..

And what did that earn him? An early grave.

Giving your life so that others may live is heroistic.

Even if you fail, at least he had the guts to TRY.

It is also honorable, and worth a LOT of Karma.

Where do you stand in that scenario - what would you do?

I know what I would do.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

Quote

At least he fucking tried to help.

Understood.

However, sometimes the desire to help doesn't mean somebody is qualified to help. He may have been qualified to shoot a gun. He may have been incredibly proficient at it. That said, he clearly didn't understand the situation he inserted himself into and in that respect he wasn't qualified to perform the task he was attempting.

I ask you as well -

What would you do?

The fetal position doesn't count.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

turtle speed

I know what I would do.

No. You do not.

You may think you know, but it is impossible to know until you're actually put in that situation because there are simply too many variables to consider at the time that you absolutely do not know at this moment.

Believing you think you know is living in a fantasy world.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

***I know what I would do.

No. You do not.

You may think you know, but it is impossible to know until you're actually put in that situation.

Believing you think you know is living in a fantasy world.

Maybe for you.

I am certain I know.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,117]

turtlespeed

******I know what I would do.

No. You do not.

You may think you know, but it is impossible to know until you're actually put in that situation.

Believing you think you know is living in a fantasy world.

Maybe for you.

I am certain I know.

Sure.

Just like there are a lot of dead skydivers who were SURE they didn't need an AAD because they KNEW they would always pull on time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

kallend

*********I know what I would do.

No. You do not.

You may think you know, but it is impossible to know until you're actually put in that situation.

Believing you think you know is living in a fantasy world.

Maybe for you.

I am certain I know.

Sure.

Just like there are a lot of dead skydivers who were SURE they didn't need an AAD because they KNEW they would always pull on time.

Nope - one is situational with a choice of not having all the tools available. Thats like saying that I would go into the situation armed with nothing, as opposed to a proper weapon.

If you chose not to have the tool, you can't do the work properly.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

mpohl

You mean the same kind of police that threw a flash grenade into a child's playpen at night here in Georgia?

Real upstanding and trustworthy public servants. Those guys and their ilk calling someone a hero makes it immediately suspicious.

Quote

I guess you will have to address the police there'
They are the ones calling him a hero

same place?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

turtlespeed

Nope - one is situational with a choice of not having all the tools available. Thats like saying that I would go into the situation armed with nothing, as opposed to a proper weapon.

If you chose not to have the tool, you can't do the work properly.

Your confidence level has been lulled into believing a gun is magic and the solution to the entire situation.

It's not.

It's like the people who have had Cypres fires believing they didn't have to be concerned with situational awareness as long as they had an AAD. It's foolish.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[freethefly 6]

regulator

***This guy got himself killed attempting to be a hero.

What he forgot in his little Walter Mitty fantasy was when he went up against Pumpkin and Yolanda is that he's not Samuel L. Jackson and doesn't have a wallet with the words "Mother Fucker" on it.

The cops calling this guy a hero are pretty much just being polite and having some sympathy for his survivors. It would be pretty rude to call the guy out for inserting himself into a situation he obviously didn't have situational awareness of.

At least he fucking tried to help. He didnt sit behind his computer and armchair quarterback what should have happened. Perhaps one day you can grow some testicles yourself.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/crime-courts/family-mourns-man-killed-while-trying-stop-shooting-spree

Quote

“He basically… he heard the threat to everyone and he was trying to stop it,” Wilson said. “He wasn’t trying to be a hero. He was trying to do what he thought should be done. “

Wilson paused, reflected on his nephews actions, and admitted through tears, “I’d rather have him here alive.”

As I imagined, they rather he had not. Sad that he is dead. Sad for his family.

What puzzles me is the statement that he gave his life to stop the shooters.
He did not give his life to stop them. I'm sure that he thought that all would go well for him. He was wrong. Now he is dead and he accomplished nothing other than getting himself killed.

I wonder what type of training he had to handle such a situation? Further more, he could had just as easily been shot by the police as he may had been seen as the threat.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[craddock 0]

kallend

*********I know what I would do.

No. You do not.

You may think you know, but it is impossible to know until you're actually put in that situation.

Believing you think you know is living in a fantasy world.

Maybe for you.

I am certain I know.

Sure.

Just like there are a lot of dead skydivers who were SURE they didn't need an AAD because they KNEW they would always pull on time.

I hate to even respond to Kallend but I am in that mood. What does the skydiver saying they knew he would pull on time have to do with anything? Turtle says he knows what he would do. If he went up in a plane to jump would you agree he would jump? He might say I am getting in that plane and I know what I am going to do. Yep....Jump out. I see nowhere that Turtle has guaranteed any damn outcome. Did I miss that post? Maybe he meant to guarantee but I only took at as he would act!

Second does every cop that gets killed in the line of duty have everyone jump on him that he was not qualified and was in over his head? I have put myself in some questionable situations trying to help some one but I knew I was I was getting into. Just because you don't win every battle does not mean you were not cut out for the fight!! WTH? You can not rehearse that shit anymore than the cops can or first responders in an emergency. Guess what? Even the special forces get killed! I have seen enough to know there was a time when I was in better shape that you would rather have me show up to save you than the local police or volunteer rescue(depending on situation). Sadly that had failed as well and I have to wonder what I could have done different.

I get so pissed reading some of this crap so sorry for the vent. I have actually discharged a firearm in a tense situation followed by my laser in the dark pointed center of mass from my Crimson Trace grips(actually I immediately hit the decocker on my 226 pointed at the ground first sending it into DA mode before aiming center of mass). But again I put myself into that situation. I would not have done it exactly the same knowing info on the back end but so be it.

Now before you go off on me let me say this. I have actually got rid of a sidearm when I was carrying(in the woods actually. Have a ccw but have never carried in public), before engaging in a tense situation. Knowing full well(or thinking) I could handle said situation and I felt no flipping need to bring a pistol to the show. My brother freaked out when I dropped my holster at cabin to go back to the problem first thinking I was nuts. It was a no brainer and instinctive for me. I was carrying for wildlife predators not because I ever expected to come across a tense confrontation.

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[craddock 0]

freethefly

I'm sure that he thought that all would go well for him. He was wrong.

I wonder what type of training he had to handle such a situation? Further more, he could had just as easily been shot by the police as he may had been seen as the threat.

How are you so sure? I have not even read the story your discussing so maybe the details are in there that he thought he was safe to do so. I doubt they are though and if I am wrong I apologize. But I would never ever ever assume like you do. That someone that tries to help does not realize the risk they are taking. I would think quite the opposite of a good samaritan if I were forced to assume but usually I reserve that judgement for the extremest on both sides of the isle

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[freethefly 6]

craddock

***
I'm sure that he thought that all would go well for him. He was wrong.

I wonder what type of training he had to handle such a situation? Further more, he could had just as easily been shot by the police as he may had been seen as the threat.

How are you so sure? I have not even read the story your discussing so maybe the details are in there that he thought he was safe to do so. I doubt they are though and if I am wrong I apologize. But I would never ever ever assume like you do. That someone that tries to help does not realize the risk they are taking. I would think quite the opposite of a good samaritan if I were forced to assume but usually I reserve that judgement for the extremest on both sides of the isle

You are right that I had made an unfair assumption. I am sure, however, that he had good intentions and was thinking of others. How he thought the situation would play out for himself, you are right, I cannot say.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Boomerdog 0]

you're point in all of this?

[Amazon 7]

freethefly

******
I'm sure that he thought that all would go well for him. He was wrong.

I wonder what type of training he had to handle such a situation? Further more, he could had just as easily been shot by the police as he may had been seen as the threat.

How are you so sure? I have not even read the story your discussing so maybe the details are in there that he thought he was safe to do so. I doubt they are though and if I am wrong I apologize. But I would never ever ever assume like you do. That someone that tries to help does not realize the risk they are taking. I would think quite the opposite of a good samaritan if I were forced to assume but usually I reserve that judgement for the extremest on both sides of the isle

You are right that I had made an unfair assumption. I am sure, however, that he had good intentions and was thinking of others. How he thought the situation would play out for himself, you are right, I cannot say.

Far too many people do not consider the repercussions of getting a Carry Permit.

Very few of them have a clue of what they will do when the time comes to remove the weapon from its holster.

You can take all the classes you want... and you can spend hours and hours at the range burning powder and killing paper... but when some asshole is there in front of you threatening your life or taking other peoples lives... all that tough guy talk has just been that... what are you going to do.

[normiss 871]

This is accurate, weapon or not.
You have to admit even an unarmed citizen trying to challenge the attackers would have been met with the same response.
Again, NOT the tool, the action.

[mpohl 1]

To get you and everyone else thinking. And communicating.

Boomerdog

you're point in all of this?

[craddock 0]

That's why I don't talk the tough guy talk. I just listen

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.