Seattle Pacific University shooting

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

*********First off, you may wish to revisit your stats

Nope. It's your turn.

Show me what you've got. Show me where a student carrying a gun has stopped a school shooting and, of course I mean, other than the shooter committing suicide.

Your stats are skewed, simply because knowing the students can carry prevents the shooting.

Prove it.

Show me a single instance where a guy who committed one of these mass shootings has said he picked School A vs School B because of the school's gun carry policy.

MOST of these shooters know full well going into the situation they are going to end up dead. It is extremely rare any of them believe for a second they're going to get away and live to talk about it.

Are you sure? Did you ask them? Did ANYONE ask them.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

turtlespeed

************First off, you may wish to revisit your stats

Nope. It's your turn.

Show me what you've got. Show me where a student carrying a gun has stopped a school shooting and, of course I mean, other than the shooter committing suicide.

Your stats are skewed, simply because knowing the students can carry prevents the shooting.

Prove it.

Show me a single instance where a guy who committed one of these mass shootings has said he picked School A vs School B because of the school's gun carry policy.

MOST of these shooters know full well going into the situation they are going to end up dead. It is extremely rare any of them believe for a second they're going to get away and live to talk about it.

Are you sure? Did you ask them? Did ANYONE ask them.

Then you admit it. You were pulling this out of your ass when you said, "...because knowing the students can carry prevents the shooting."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

***************First off, you may wish to revisit your stats

Nope. It's your turn.

Show me what you've got. Show me where a student carrying a gun has stopped a school shooting and, of course I mean, other than the shooter committing suicide.

Your stats are skewed, simply because knowing the students can carry prevents the shooting.

Prove it.

Show me a single instance where a guy who committed one of these mass shootings has said he picked School A vs School B because of the school's gun carry policy.

MOST of these shooters know full well going into the situation they are going to end up dead. It is extremely rare any of them believe for a second they're going to get away and live to talk about it.

Are you sure? Did you ask them? Did ANYONE ask them.

Then you admit it. You were pulling this out of your ass when you said, "...because knowing the students can carry prevents the shooting."

No - out of common sense.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

quade

Which, sort of proves the system works as well as anything else.

School Shootings Stopped by "Building Monitor" Armed with Mace: 1
School Shootings Stopped by Random CC Student with Gun: 0

I mean, unless you can find a school shooting that has been stopped by a random student concealed carry gun anywhere. Can you?

Well, they weren't actually carrying them, they had to retrieve them from their cars, and both of them were off duty cops, but Here is One

And it wasn't a student, but the principal, and again he wasn't carrying but retrieved it from his car:

Paarl MS

There was another that I recall where the janitor had a gun in his car, got it and stopped the shooter. I think it was in California, but I can't say for sure and couldn't find it with a quick search.

Of course, these days there have been laws passed that make it a crime to have a gun anywhere on school property, even locked in a personal vehicle (it's a felony in Wisconsin).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[turtlespeed 226]

wolfriverjoe

***
Which, sort of proves the system works as well as anything else.

School Shootings Stopped by "Building Monitor" Armed with Mace: 1
School Shootings Stopped by Random CC Student with Gun: 0

I mean, unless you can find a school shooting that has been stopped by a random student concealed carry gun anywhere. Can you?

Well, they weren't actually carrying them, they had to retrieve them from their cars, and both of them were off duty cops, but Here is One

And it wasn't a student, but the principal, and again he wasn't carrying but retrieved it from his car:

Paarl MS

There was another that I recall where the janitor had a gun in his car, got it and stopped the shooter. I think it was in California, but I can't say for sure and couldn't find it with a quick search.

Of course, these days there have been laws passed that make it a crime to have a gun anywhere on school property, even locked in a personal vehicle (it's a felony in Wisconsin).

Think of the time that could have been saved if they could carry on their person?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,175]

SURPRISE!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airtwardo 7]

kallend

SURPRISE!

More proof that there is a national mental illness problem that's being falsely discussed as a gun control problem.

Ever see a plumber use a monkey wrench as a hammer?

He uses any tool to get the job done...just because he doesn't have a hammer available doesn't mean he quits and goes home...

...if a mentally ill person is set on 'killing as many people as possible' they will find a method to do so.

Maybe it's time to stop worrying about the inanimate objects these people use to kill - and start addressing the ways to stop that person from want to kill.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[kallend 2,175]

airtwardo

***SURPRISE!

More proof that there is a national mental illness problem that's being falsely discussed as a gun control problem.

Ever see a plumber use a monkey wrench as a hammer?



Of course, the weapon of choice of these loonies is not a monkey wrench or a hammer.

Curing the mentally ill may take months or years (or may not be possible at all). It seems you're OK with letting them have easy access to the weapon of choice during this time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

airtwardo

...if a mentally ill person is set on 'killing as many people as possible' they will find a method to do so.

Perhaps, but we don't have to make it easy for them.

That is the problem with the current system; it's too easy for people with mental health issues to have access to guns.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airtwardo 7]

quade

***...if a mentally ill person is set on 'killing as many people as possible' they will find a method to do so.

Perhaps, but we don't have to make it easy for them.

That is the problem with the current system; it's too easy for people with mental health issues to have access to guns.

Or ~
pencil
pen
bottle opener
book
lamp
vase
bottle
hangers
golf clubs
letter opener
insecticide
fertilizer
sulfur
PVC DWV Pipe
Propane
Nail gun
Screw Driver
Chain
Hedge Clippers
Rip saw
utility knives
paint thinner
glass
gasoline
ammonium nitrate
galvanized pipe
rope
ice pick
pillow
electricity
airplane
automobile
tank stolen from National Guard Armory
bulldozer
crane
bowling ball
bowling pin
monkey wrench
flame thrower super squirter
piano wire
fishing sinkers
Bow & Arrow
crossbow
sword
mace
pipe bomb

~ basicly anything one can lay their hands on...

More deaths occur annually with alcohol & automobiles as a factor than do guns, what's being done to stop the carnage?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[quade 4]

When you can show me a series of killing sprees committed by nuts at schools with pencils . . . you'll have a point.

Yes, it's a pun, but it's also the damn truth.

Guns make mass killing easier. Far too easy for nuts to have access to.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[champu 1]

The problem I have, as I stated before in another thread, with what I'll call the "California AB 1014 Solution" is that if a person is crazy and dangerous enough to issue a court order to go and confiscate all their firearms, then you better do more than just confiscate their firearms. I don't believe there's some "perfect amount of crazy" where taking any guns they might have access to and calling it a day makes sense.

If you make any action that easy there are going to be a lot of false positives, and I think everybody knows it. The idea of "everyone needs to be prepared to get locked up with a minimal amount of evidence that they might do something wrong" is unpalatable but it's easy to sell "firearm owners need to be prepared to have their property confiscated given a minimal amount of evidence they might do something wrong and be forced to get a lawyer to get it back" Because enough people don't own guns and couldn't care less about those that do.

To me this starts to feel similar to the civil forfeiture situations where you have law enforcement agencies suing a pile of cash and taking it because they don't have a winnable case against the person.

[rhaig 0]

quade

Guns make mass killing easier. Far too easy for nuts to have access to.

Here's an idea, how about we make a law that says you have to not have been declared (by licensed physicians) mentally incompetent in order to buy a gun? We could even put a system in place to make that check available to dealers via a phone call.

--
Rob

[kallend 2,175]

airtwardo

******...if a mentally ill person is set on 'killing as many people as possible' they will find a method to do so.

Perhaps, but we don't have to make it easy for them.

That is the problem with the current system; it's too easy for people with mental health issues to have access to guns.

Or ~
pencil
pen
bottle opener
book
lamp
vase
bottle
hangers
golf clubs
letter opener
insecticide
fertilizer
sulfur
PVC DWV Pipe
Propane
Nail gun
Screw Driver
Chain
Hedge Clippers
Rip saw
utility knives
paint thinner
glass
gasoline
ammonium nitrate
galvanized pipe
rope
ice pick
pillow
electricity
airplane
automobile
tank stolen from National Guard Armory
bulldozer
crane
bowling ball
bowling pin
monkey wrench
flame thrower super squirter
piano wire
fishing sinkers
Bow & Arrow
crossbow
sword
mace
pipe bomb

~ basicly anything one can lay their hands on...

More deaths occur annually with alcohol & automobiles as a factor than do guns, what's being done to stop the carnage?

And which of the above weapons did THESE loonies select?

Sorry, twardo, but some 3/4 of all US homicides are committed with guns, not pencils or monkey wrenches.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

The young man who pepper sprayed and then tackled the shooter as he tried to reload has released a statement.
It is a lesson in humility. I am indeed impressed in this day and age.
http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/spu-shooting-hero-jon-meis-releases-statement/ngG9x/

The following is a statement from Jon Meis, the Seattle Pacific University student involved in the campus shooting on June 5. Jon is requesting privacy and will not speak to the media at this time.

To my brothers and sisters at Seattle Pacific University, and my brothers and sisters in Christ throughout the nation and the world,

Words cannot come close to expressing the tragedy that occurred this past week on our campus. Like everyone else, I would hear of these horrible events on the news, but go home knowing that it could never happen to us. On Thursday, my life changed. I was thrown into a life and death situation, and through God’s grace I was able to stop the attacker and walk away unharmed. As I try to return to a normal life in the aftermath of this horrible event, I pray above all things for strength for the victims and their families. While my experience left me in physical shock, I know that many people are dealing with much greater grief than I have experienced, and in honesty I probably would not be able to handle myself right now if I had personally known the victims.

I know that I am being hailed as a hero, and as many people have suggested I find this hard to accept. I am indeed a quiet and private individual; while I have imagined what it would be like to save a life I never believed I would be put in such a situation. It touches me truly and deeply to read online that parents are telling their children about me and telling them that real heroes do exist.

However, what I find most difficult about this situation is the devastating reality that a hero cannot come without tragedy. In the midst of this attention, we cannot ignore that a life was taken from us, ruthlessly and without justification or cause. Others were badly injured, and many more will carry this event with them the rest of their lives. Nonetheless, I would encourage that hate be met with love. When I came face to face with the attacker, God gave me the eyes to see that he was not a faceless monster, but a very sad and troubled young man. While I cannot at this time find it within me to forgive his crime, I truly desire that he will find the grace of God and the forgiveness of our community.

I would like to truly thank the responders who secured the building and the medical staff who looked after myself and those who were injured. After being in this situation myself, it is even harder to imagine what it would be like to have a job where one’s life is willingly put on the line every day. To our police, emergency responders, and armed forces, you have my greatest respect.

I am overwhelmed with the incredible generosity that has been showered upon me. It has been deeply touching to read the comments online and realize that my actions have had such a strikingly widespread effect. Moving forward, I am strongly requesting that any future donations be given to the victims through Seattle Pacific University.

I am grateful for the prayers and support coming from our home city and afar. In these next few days, weeks, and months, please continue to pray for everyone in the Seattle Pacific community. We serve a truly awesome God and I firmly believe that it is through Him alone that we will find the strength to heal from this tragedy.

Jon Meis
Student, Seattle Pacific University

[kelpdiver 2]

rhaig

***Guns make mass killing easier. Far too easy for nuts to have access to.

Here's an idea, how about we make a law that says you have to not have been declared (by licensed physicians) mentally incompetent in order to buy a gun? We could even put a system in place to make that check available to dealers via a phone call.

which of course we do actually have. For this particular instance, going forward is checking
1) if his involuntary stay met the definitions
2) was it properly recorded
3) did he purchase his weapons before or after

Improving the situation for persons who already show signs of serious mental illness is an easier one - we already have defined barriers but have shown implementation flaws.

[winsor 236]

quade

***...if a mentally ill person is set on 'killing as many people as possible' they will find a method to do so.

Perhaps, but we don't have to make it easy for them.

That is the problem with the current system; it's too easy for people with mental health issues to have access to guns.

Damn! You're so right!

Why don't we make firearms as illegal and unavailable as, say drugs?

And while we're at it, it really pisses me off that people drive under the influence of alcohol. We should illegalize the stuff! We could call it, oh, 'Prohibition,' and it would be a total success!


BSBD,

Winsor

[rehmwa 2]

Amazon

The young man who pepper sprayed and then tackled the shooter as he tried to reload has released a statement.
It is a lesson in humility. I am indeed impressed in this day and age.

Nice communication indeed. Sounds like a good kid.

(I'm not a fan of the religious tone, but if that's who he is and what he is about, then it's an honest note as well. It still doesn't lessen the class of his basic message for me, and likely adds to the message for those that are likeminded as he is.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

rehmwa

***The young man who pepper sprayed and then tackled the shooter as he tried to reload has released a statement.
It is a lesson in humility. I am indeed impressed in this day and age.

Nice communication indeed. Sounds like a good kid.

(I'm not a fan of the religious tone, but if that's who he is and what he is about, then it's an honest note as well. It still doesn't lessen the class of his basic message for me, and likely adds to the message for those that are likeminded as he is.)

It fits the school.. its a private Christian university. http://www.spu.edu/

For many of the people there it is what is helping them cope.