aphid 0 #51 June 2, 2014 In recent memory, I've seen people in this forum angry that... - The President authorized the extra-judicial drone attack & killing of an American citizen on foreign soil, - The administration allegedly failed to act promptly and properly to save Americans in Benghazi, - Negotiated the successful return of a hostage American soldier who some would vilify for allegedly being AWOL or a deserter. On this, the latest turn, perhaps some might wish to read The Deserters by Charles Glass for some perspective. "Some 50,000 American and 100,000 British soldiers deserted from the armed forces in the Second World War. Thirty-eight thousand of them were tried for attempting to evade hazardous duty by some dishonourable means." link: http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/books/2013/08/23/the_deserters_by_charles_glass_review.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #52 June 2, 2014 Quote "Some 50,000 American and 100,000 British soldiers deserted from the armed forces in the Second World War. Thirty-eight thousand of them were tried for attempting to evade hazardous duty by some dishonourable means." Were they called "hero's" when they came home? Quote Negotiated the successful return of a hostage American soldier who some would vilify for allegedly being AWOL or a deserter. I think at best he may get off with AWOL, but I don't think that it is in question that he left on his on accord. He MAY NOT have plan to get captured. One point. It will be very hard to prove anything more than he chose to leave. "I was confused, young and didn't agree to what America was doing. I slipped out of camp to clear my head, I know I shouldn't have. I went for a walk got lost and got captured" Which could be the truth.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #53 June 2, 2014 AnvilbrotherImmediately in his case. It was known for a long time via comments to his fellow troops, emails to his parents, and the fact that he mailed all of his valuables home half way through the deployment, and left camp with only a few survival items that he went awol. I dont care who made the decision to free him, im not sure how that process works, but there are a few things that are clear. They broke the law They broke the long standing tool of war that the U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists. The terrorists now know that if they kidnap the right people and keep them long enough there is HOPE that they can actually have their demands met. Up to till this point that was not the case, our M.O. was to say no, then beat the door down with operators and take back what is ours. And I know of someone who refused to show up for his flight physical that could have revealed his use of controlled substances by a golden flow test. He then left... and was AWOL.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #54 June 2, 2014 Quote And I know of someone who refused to show up for his flight physical that could have revealed his use of controlled substances by a golden flow test. He then left... and was AWOL.. LOL, you have proof of that? Funny all that proof and he got elected TWICE....you'd think your just KNOWING that would have been enough to doom him..... ROTFLOL, give me a break.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #55 June 2, 2014 QuoteI don't think that it is in question that he left on his on accord. Has he confessed to this? If not, what non-circumstantial evidence of this do you have? As I said above, I don't deny the circumstantial evidence, but so far that's all it is: circumstantial (unless he's confessed in the meantime, or you know something about the evidence I don't). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aphid 0 #56 June 2, 2014 mirage62Quote "Some 50,000 American and 100,000 British soldiers deserted from the armed forces in the Second World War. Thirty-eight thousand of them were tried for attempting to evade hazardous duty by some dishonourable means." Were they called "hero's" when they came home? The ones that weren't charged likely received conventional discharge papers and possibly lived out the balance of their days as members of "The Greatest Generation" by association. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #57 June 2, 2014 mirage62Quote And I know of someone who refused to show up for his flight physical that could have revealed his use of controlled substances by a golden flow test. He then left... and was AWOL.. LOL, you have proof of that? Funny all that proof and he got elected TWICE....you'd think your just KNOWING that would have been enough to doom him..... ROTFLOL, give me a break. Funny.. If it was me on flight status at the time ( and I was Active USAF) and I pulled that shit... I would have gotten a dishonorable discharge.. but then again my daddy was not very well connected. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #58 June 2, 2014 Quote Funny.. If it was me on flight status at the time ( and I was Active USAF) and I pulled that shit... I would have gotten a dishonorable discharge.. but then again my daddy was not very well connected. Yep, sucks to be a common person...... I'm sure you have all your facts straight, just funny that it didn't really come out in two elections...not that I doubt your statements. Who was that reporter that ran the story - I think about this or something close - Dan something or other....lost his job over shitty reporting..... But again, it was just a cover up.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #59 June 2, 2014 mirage62 Personally I'll bet it will be hard if not impossible to prove that anyone was killed in the search for him I wouldnt bet on this if I where you.Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #60 June 2, 2014 Andy9o8QuoteI don't think that it is in question that he left on his on accord. Has he confessed to this? If not, what non-circumstantial evidence of this do you have? As I said above, I don't deny the circumstantial evidence, but so far that's all it is: circumstantial (unless he's confessed in the meantime, or you know something about the evidence I don't). I am sure you can find the reports on the internet if you look hard enough. I am not one to inter into debate here but, I think everyone needs to be intellectually honest. He deserted. I am glad he is back but he is far from a hero.Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #61 June 2, 2014 Right. So you have zero non circumstantial evidence. Intellectual honesty is acknowledging the difference between reasonable suspicion (which it seems to be) and proof (which it isn't, pending further investigation). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #62 June 2, 2014 normiss"So a US soldier captured by the enemy is a traitor - because if he was a hero that might help Obama." From what I'm seeing, fellow service men, in HIS UNIT, that served on active duty with him, MULTIPLE members, are all claiming and telling very similar stories and have been for some time.... What are you after in this debate? billvon did not read my posts, did not see my doubt and change of position. His mission is to always latch onto one segment of my post and take off on a tangent. He is a good liberal. That is just what they do.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #63 June 2, 2014 Ooh, now you got him on the ropes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #64 June 2, 2014 Amazon How long do you have to be AWOL before its relevant to being a traitor?? That is a good question. One report stated he got drunk and wandered off. Normally, in a peace setting I think that would be AWOL. Also, if I remember correctly, AWOL more than 30 days is desertion. However, to wander off in a war zone may automatically be considered desertion. I think this whole situation is becoming very bizarre. But, with BHO everything is bizarre and makes no real sense.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #65 June 2, 2014 Im not going to play your redirect game mam. We are talking about what appears to be a deserter. The possible laws that were broken in the process. The damage to America’s unwavering, bipartisan policy not to negotiate with terrorists, especially for the exchange of hostages. This all could encourage future terrorist kidnappings of Americans. I know as the draw down continues there are units deployed with less men on the ground, less assets to rely on, and an enemy that knows the wait to re occupy ground they once lost is finally coming near. The last units to leave are basically sitting ducks, and now Taliban boss Mullah Omar has scored what he is calling a victory in this swap, showing that they feel this could be a viable tactic to ramp up efforts in. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #66 June 2, 2014 Andy9o8 Ooh, now you got him on the ropes. Pooh!Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #67 June 3, 2014 AnvilbrotherIm not going to play your redirect game mam. We are talking about what appears to be a deserter. The possible laws that were broken in the process. The damage to America’s unwavering, bipartisan policy not to negotiate with terrorists, especially for the exchange of hostages. This all could encourage future terrorist kidnappings of Americans. I know as the draw down continues there are units deployed with less men on the ground, less assets to rely on, and an enemy that knows the wait to re occupy ground they once lost is finally coming near. The last units to leave are basically sitting ducks, and now Taliban boss Mullah Omar has scored what he is calling a victory in this swap, showing that they feel this could be a viable tactic to ramp up efforts in. What would St Ronald do... oh yes.. negotiate with terrorists.. {psst} look up Iran Contra Next fallacy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
propblast 0 #68 June 3, 2014 Andy9o8Right. So you have zero non circumstantial evidence. Intellectual honesty is acknowledging the difference between reasonable suspicion (which it seems to be) and proof (which it isn't, pending further investigation). The proof exists. Do you think every member of his unit is lying? Do you think all those reports are false? You normally dont sound like a conspiracy theorist, but do now. There is plenty of proof. It is not my job to do the leg work for you. This guy should be charged under article 85 and 86 of the UCMJ. It is not a partisan topic. Just fact.Propblast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #69 June 3, 2014 It's being reported on Fox News that took his cell phone when he left and called two days after he left. I realize that it's Fox News and many here will automatically discount it completly, this would seem to be easily disproved or confirm by a legitimate news source such as CNN.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #70 June 3, 2014 Amazon***Im not going to play your redirect game mam. We are talking about what appears to be a deserter. The possible laws that were broken in the process. The damage to America’s unwavering, bipartisan policy not to negotiate with terrorists, especially for the exchange of hostages. This all could encourage future terrorist kidnappings of Americans. I know as the draw down continues there are units deployed with less men on the ground, less assets to rely on, and an enemy that knows the wait to re occupy ground they once lost is finally coming near. The last units to leave are basically sitting ducks, and now Taliban boss Mullah Omar has scored what he is calling a victory in this swap, showing that they feel this could be a viable tactic to ramp up efforts in. What would St Ronald do... oh yes.. negotiate with terrorists.. {psst} look up Iran Contra Next fallacy Didn't we negotiate with, and then pay off a bunch of Iraqi Sunni tribal leaders, who had killed Hundreds of American troops and also had kidnapped and killed american civilian contractors, to stop killing Americans and go after the Shia? I can't seem to recall the outrage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #71 June 3, 2014 Stop playing your number 1 play from Rules for Radicals. Lets focus on the topic at hand. Reagan was wrong to do so, but YOUR OWN PEOPLE said this about him... "The Democratic-controlled United States Congress issued its own report on November 18, 1987, stating that "If the president did not know what his national security advisers were doing, he should have".[9] The congressional report wrote that the president bore "ultimate responsibility" for wrongdoing by his aides, and his administration exhibited "secrecy, deception and disdain for the law" Sounds like about a two dozen things Obama has done in office doesnt it? Back to the matter at hand. He was a deserter. Possible laws were broken. Even with your ONE example of not following the "no negotiations'' rule you cant sit there and tell me that is not our usual M.O. to not deal with them can you? Our hard line dealings with terrorists was damaged. (again if you must make me say it) Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #72 June 3, 2014 normissToo fast? Search deeper. They've been saying this from day 1. Exactly...like why in the hell would members of his own unit have to sign non-disclosure agreements about a POW? That's stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #73 June 3, 2014 This is just the beginning of how obama plans on releasing the current detainees of gitmo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #74 June 3, 2014 Interestingly two men who were serving with him when it seems he deserted, basically say they are glad he is home but do not believe he is a hero and want him to stand trail. They both say he deserted. I just don't see how this was a good move given what we are being told. There's got to be more to the story. Five of the top bad guys, for THIS GUY? It doesn't add up.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #75 June 3, 2014 Don't forget the 6 guys that died trying to find him also. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
