DanG 1 #351 July 11, 2014 QuoteObserved data vs the predictions Are you claiming that none of the climate change predictions are coming true? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #352 July 11, 2014 DanGQuoteObserved data vs the predictions Are you claiming that none of the climate change predictions are coming true? First off The climate changes That is undisputable Is man altering the change somehow is the question So, some predictions will come true by default I am not disputing change As for the alarmists predictions? Well, when one knows that it was warmer in the past than the manipulated data (that was used to push the myth) shows, I question the whole AWG premise to begin with and no current data supports the claims either"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #353 July 11, 2014 DanGQuoteObserved data vs the predictions Are you claiming that none of the climate change predictions are coming true? My turn will you say that current observations support the predictions?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #354 July 11, 2014 Quotewill you say that current observations support the predictions? Most of them, yes. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #355 July 11, 2014 DanGQuotewill you say that current observations support the predictions? Most of them, yes. which ones?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #356 July 11, 2014 Global temperatures are going up. Land ice in Antarctica is melting. Ice extend in the Arctic is reducing. Glaciers everywhere are receding. Ocean levels are rising. CO2 and other greenhouse gas concentration are rising. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #357 July 11, 2014 >Are the difference is? Deniers make his company more money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #358 July 11, 2014 You make my point"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #359 July 11, 2014 QuoteYou make my point Huh? I don't know what you mean. If your point is that the large majority of climate change predictions are being observed, then yeah, I make your point. Otherwise, I think you need to make your point clear. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #360 July 15, 2014 >Your climate change theory is a combination of extreme political ideology and a >religious cult all rolled into one as Patrick Moore a PhD in Ecology would say. Another article on this from PNAS. (It doesn't fit right wing dogma, so feel free to stop reading right now.) ================== Expert credibility in climate change William R. L. Anderegg, James W. Prall, Jacob Harold, and Stephen H. Schneider Contributed by Stephen H. Schneider, April 9, 2010 (sent for review December 22, 2009) Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreementamong top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers. =================== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #361 July 15, 2014 billvon>Your climate change theory is a combination of extreme political ideology and a >religious cult all rolled into one as Patrick Moore a PhD in Ecology would say. Another article on this from PNAS. (It doesn't fit right wing dogma, so feel free to stop reading right now.) ================== Expert credibility in climate change William R. L. Anderegg, James W. Prall, Jacob Harold, and Stephen H. Schneider Contributed by Stephen H. Schneider, April 9, 2010 (sent for review December 22, 2009) Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreementamong top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97–98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers. =================== Just the fact that this touts the consensus lie, makes this not worth reading And one of the most respected alarmists changes his mind and he is attacked So I think this does little good for your cause except to supply another chapter in the bible that is AWG Oh I also like the dates I wonder if any of these guys have changed their minds in the last 3 plus years If so, they would be ignored and attacked too"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #362 July 15, 2014 How would you like to see a study that shows that climate alarmists are paid more when they write papers that support AGW? You'd love it, and you'd tout is as a first rate piece of evidence to prove your claim. But when billvon posts something that disagrees with your position, you go out of your way to dismiss it. If you really think you're unbiased, you're not being honest with yourself. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #363 July 15, 2014 DanG How would you like to see a study that shows that climate alarmists are paid more when they write papers that support AGW? You'd love it, and you'd tout is as a first rate piece of evidence to prove your claim. But when billvon posts something that disagrees with your position, you go out of your way to dismiss it. If you really think you're unbiased, you're not being honest with yourself. You think you are unbiased? How about Bill? But how about this? I would re-examine my position if something new came out today supporting AWG But there has been nothing for how many years? hell, look what Bill had to drag up At least the things I post are new The manipulated data? The climate scientist who was a leading and respected person in the field until until until He changed his mind because HE looked at the data and now thinks he himself was wrong Now, If you think anyone else is doing different than I am here you are fooling only yourself Oh, and we already know that many of these alarmists are protecting their pocket books Governments are spending big bucks on research in this field. But IMO it is not because of climate change, it is about using climate change to extract even more money from the population it governs Hope the fall off your high horse does not hurt too much"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #364 July 15, 2014 Look I know this is a persons opinion but, he does talk about some of those things I have talked about here Posting this because is sums up what I think (better than I can) very well http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/07/15/The-real-problem-with-climate-change-experts-who-aren-t-experts"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #365 July 15, 2014 >I would re-examine my position if something new came out today supporting AWG ================= Science 4 July 2014: Vol. 345 no. 6192 pp. 77-80 Report Climate change and wind intensification in coastal upwelling ecosystems W. J. Sydeman1,*, M. García-Reyes1, D. S. Schoeman2, R. R. Rykaczewski3, S. A. Thompson1,4, B. A. Black5, S. J. Bograd6 Abstract In 1990, Andrew Bakun proposed that increasing greenhouse gas concentrations would force intensification of upwelling-favorable winds in eastern boundary current systems that contribute substantial services to society. Because there is considerable disagreement about whether contemporary wind trends support Bakun’s hypothesis, we performed a meta-analysis of the literature on upwelling-favorable wind intensification. The preponderance of published analyses suggests that winds have intensified in the California, Benguela, and Humboldt upwelling systems and weakened in the Iberian system over time scales ranging up to 60 years; wind change is equivocal in the Canary system. Stronger intensification signals are observed at higher latitudes, consistent with the warming pattern associated with climate change. Overall, reported changes in coastal winds, although subtle and spatially variable, support Bakun’s hypothesis of upwelling intensification in eastern boundary current systems. Accepted for publication 30 May 2014. ================================ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #366 July 15, 2014 >You think you are unbiased? >How about Bill? I am definitely biased. I have a strong bias for peer-reviewed science over popular media - which is one reason you and I disagree so much. >Now, If you think anyone else is doing different than I am here you are fooling >only yourself Most people are "doing different" than you are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #367 July 15, 2014 Actually you like the buddy support review"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #368 July 15, 2014 billvon>I would re-examine my position if something new came out today supporting AWG ================= Science 4 July 2014: Vol. 345 no. 6192 pp. 77-80 Report Climate change and wind intensification in coastal upwelling ecosystems W. J. Sydeman1,*, M. García-Reyes1, D. S. Schoeman2, R. R. Rykaczewski3, S. A. Thompson1,4, B. A. Black5, S. J. Bograd6 Abstract In 1990, Andrew Bakun proposed that increasing greenhouse gas concentrations would force intensification of upwelling-favorable winds in eastern boundary current systems that contribute substantial services to society. Because there is considerable disagreement about whether contemporary wind trends support Bakun’s hypothesis, we performed a meta-analysis of the literature on upwelling-favorable wind intensification. The preponderance of published analyses suggests that winds have intensified in the California, Benguela, and Humboldt upwelling systems and weakened in the Iberian system over time scales ranging up to 60 years; wind change is equivocal in the Canary system. Stronger intensification signals are observed at higher latitudes, consistent with the warming pattern associated with climate change. Overall, reported changes in coastal winds, although subtle and spatially variable, support Bakun’s hypothesis of upwelling intensification in eastern boundary current systems. Accepted for publication 30 May 2014. ================================ Good So let me ask you Has this intensification EVER happened before ? We know that we have had higer CO2 consentration in that past than we do today What about this? Or are we going to have to believe that wind strenths, directions and temps are generally static? Or, intensified from what? What he say in the 90's This clip you posted seems to indicate that they have seen 60 year cycles in the past Do those cycles generally include this intensification? Glad to see something new but, it seems a bit week on what it really means dont you think?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #369 July 15, 2014 >Has this intensification EVER happened before ? Probably, although the article doesn't speak to that. >We know that we have had higer CO2 consentration in that past than we do >today. What about this? True, and we've had higher temperatures, too. In the past this was due to things like volcanic eruptions and meteor impacts. This time it's due to us. >Or are we going to have to believe that wind strenths, directions and temps are >generally static? Uh, no, that's what the article says - they change with the climate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #370 July 15, 2014 billvon>Has this intensification EVER happened before ? Probably, although the article doesn't speak to that. >We know that we have had higer CO2 consentration in that past than we do >today. What about this? True, and we've had higher temperatures, too. In the past this was due to things like volcanic eruptions and meteor impacts. This time it's due to us. >Or are we going to have to believe that wind strenths, directions and temps are >generally static? Uh, no, that's what the article says - they change with the climate. You do not know it is due to us That is your opinion There is no scientific basis for that claim yet Only conjecture"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #371 July 15, 2014 >You do not know it is due to us We know the CO2 increase is due to us. There is no doubt about that in science at all. It's simple math; megatons out to megatons in the atmosphere. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #372 July 15, 2014 billvon>You do not know it is due to us We know the CO2 increase is due to us. There is no doubt about that in science at all. It's simple math; megatons out to megatons in the atmosphere. You need it to be simple to try and make your argument but it is not simple We know this now We know there is much more involved in climate change Which seems to have very little to do with man"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #373 July 15, 2014 >You need it to be simple to try and make your argument The basics are pretty simple. 1) We are increasing CO2 concentrations 2) More CO2 means more heat retained via the greenhouse effect 3) On average, the temperature has been rising as CO2 has increased. You can try to distort that as much as you want; the basics don't change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #374 July 15, 2014 I am not distorting a thing. You however, purposely want to leave out so very much"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,110 #375 July 16, 2014 >I am not distorting a thing. So you accept those three basic principles? Excellent! Progress. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites