Comprehensive Pro-Gun Bill Georgia Law 23 Apr 14

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

this is great
the aniti gunners are apoplectic

Blood in the streets and all the rest

Predictions that will, once again, NOT come true

Thanks

Depending on where you are looking from, there seems to be lots of blood flowing.

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

***this is great
the aniti gunners are apoplectic

Blood in the streets and all the rest

Predictions that will, once again, NOT come true

Thanks

Depending on where you are looking from, there seems to be lots of blood flowing.

Yes
Mostly in the places where the strictest laws exist
Chicago easily comes to mind
With that said however
NO WHERE can you show and increase in gun crime (in the US) where laws alowing those legally able to carry were changed to allow conceal carry

you cant do it
so

EVERY fearmonger gun-o-phobe prediction that has ever been made in the US has not come to pass
Period

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

Yes
Mostly in the places where the strictest laws exist
Chicago easily comes to mind
With that said however
NO WHERE can you show and increase in gun crime (in the US) where laws alowing those legally able to carry were changed to allow conceal carry

you cant do it
so

EVERY fearmonger gun-o-phobe prediction that has ever been made in the US has not come to pass
Period

Unless you are a fearmonger gun-o-phobe outside of the US. Then you can claim that having lots of guns and easy access to them appears to have aided in creating a pretty violent society.

[normiss 898]

Or you could easily throw another dozen ideas about what contributes to a violent society.
I don't think it's any one singular thing.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

normiss

Or you could easily throw another dozen ideas about what contributes to a violent society.
I don't think it's any one singular thing.

Agreed, it hardly ever is just one thing.

[RonD1120 62]

Southern_Man

***
In my area HB60 changes nothing except that we can legally carry in areas where we were already carrying.

So you admit to carrying illegally

I was told by one of the pastors in my church during my membership conference that the services had self appointed security personnel attending. A friend of mine, retired LEO, told me the key word is concealed. I was told by my concealed weapons instructor not to reveal my weapon to anyone including LEOs. If the LEO discovers it during a pat down then produce the permit and proper ID. GA and FL have agreements of reciprocity.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 898]

Every time I'm stopped by LEO, they ALWAYS ask if I'm carrying.
Bet a red flag pops up.

I have been advised to always declare the weapon to LEOs.

[RonD1120 62]

normiss

Every time I'm stopped by LEO, they ALWAYS ask if I'm carrying.
Bet a red flag pops up.

I have been advised to always declare the weapon to LEOs.

Yep, I doubt if I have the balls to tell a cop I'm not carrying when I am. Seems like a guaranteed trip to jail while the legalities are sorted out.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 898]

"I HAVE A GUN!!!"

Would do the same I think.

[Andy9o8 2]

RonD1120

***Every time I'm stopped by LEO, they ALWAYS ask if I'm carrying.
Bet a red flag pops up.

I have been advised to always declare the weapon to LEOs.

Yep, I doubt if I have the balls to tell a cop I'm not carrying when I am. Seems like a guaranteed trip to jail while the legalities are sorted out.

Knowingly making a materially false statement to authorities is a criminal offense in every state I'm aware of. Probably all 50, I'd reasonably presume. It's a federal offense if you do to a Fed. So yeah.

[normiss 898]

If only it were the other way around....

[ryoder 1,590]

normiss

Every time I'm stopped by LEO, they ALWAYS ask if I'm carrying.
Bet a red flag pops up.

I have been advised to always declare the weapon to LEOs.

Last time I had a traffic stop, the cop already knew if I had a permit when he walked up to the car.

To determine if a state requires you to tell LEO you are carrying, select the state on the map here, then search the state page for the section titled "Informing Law Enforcement of Carry":

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_information.html

If the state has such a law, it will elaborate in that section.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

To determine if a state requires you to tell LEO you are carrying

I presume that would only be in the context of whether you're required to volunteer the information if it isn't already asked. I haven't checked out every state, but I'd be pretty surprised if any state carves out an exception to the general law (which prohibits lying to authorities) and specifically allows you to say "no" to The Question if the clear truth is "yes".

[ryoder 1,590]

Andy9o8

I presume that would only be in the context of whether you're required to volunteer the information

That is how I interpret it.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kelpdiver 2]

SkyDekker

Unless you are a fearmonger gun-o-phobe outside of the US. Then you can claim that having lots of guns and easy access to them appears to have aided in creating a pretty violent society.

people all over make lots of uninformed (iow, ignorant) statements about other cultures and nations, and well beyond the ugly american tourists.

It's not something to be proud of, Dekker.

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Andy9o8

Quote

To determine if a state requires you to tell LEO you are carrying

I presume that would only be in the context of whether you're required to volunteer the information if it isn't already asked. I haven't checked out every state, but I'd be pretty surprised if any state carves out an exception to the general law (which prohibits lying to authorities) and specifically allows you to say "no" to The Question if the clear truth is "yes".

You presume correctly on that. Some states require a person carrying with a permit to inform the LEO that they are armed at the first reasonable opportunity. Others have no such requirement, but require an honest answer if the LEO asks.

Wisconsin falls into the 2nd category (no requirement to tell). Indiana and Ohio fall into the first.
There was a "Bad Cop" video from Ohio (we discussed it on here) where the guy tries several times to tell the cop that he is carrying, but the cop won't let the guy get more than 2 or 3 words out before the cop yells at the guy to shut up. And then, of course, the cop gets bent out of shape and threatens to shoot the guy for not telling the cop that the guy is carrying (I tried to use "him" & "he" but it was worse).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[seedy 0]

In Kansas one is supposed to hand their CCW license to the cop along with their DL when asked for the DL.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

***
Only if the requirements for attaining said permits are common across all states.

It is my understanding that agreements of reciprocity are a separate issue. Example, if I have a concealed permit in one state and I am travelling to another state with an agreement of reciprocity, why should I be restricted from travelling across a state without such an agreement?


The way I see it is you're completely free to do what you want in your state, but if mine has different rules you should need to comply with those to come in. That's only polite...

It's a typical 'my house, my rules' situation. If I'm a smoker, and you're not then I'm not going to smoke in your house, you know?

A reciprocity agreement that waives non-carry states (even if you're traveling between 'carry' states) is just a way to avoid the laws in place. It wouldn't even be a particularly subtle way to do it.

[Coreece 190]

yoink

It's a typical 'my house, my rules' situation. If I'm a smoker, and you're not then I'm not going to smoke in your house, you know?

But if I handcuffed and tossed you into my dungeon just because you didn't leave your cigs at home, you'd think I'm some kind of major asshole...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[yoink 321]

Coreece

***It's a typical 'my house, my rules' situation. If I'm a smoker, and you're not then I'm not going to smoke in your house, you know?

But if I handcuffed and tossed you into my dungeon just because you didn't leave your cigs at home, you'd think I'm some kind of major asshole...

If those were your rules, and I knew them, I wouldn't bring the cigs into your house...
Your house. Your rules, and I'd respect that. Or I'd stay away.

What I wouldn't do is tell you that the way you're setting up the rules in your area is wrong, just because I don't agree with them.

[Coreece 190]

yoink

******It's a typical 'my house, my rules' situation. If I'm a smoker, and you're not then I'm not going to smoke in your house, you know?

But if I handcuffed and tossed you into my dungeon just because you didn't leave your cigs at home, you'd think I'm some kind of major asshole...

If those were your rules, and I knew them, I wouldn't bring the cigs into your house...
Your house. Your rules, and I'd respect that. Or I'd stay away.

What I wouldn't do is tell you that the way you're setting up the rules in your area is wrong, just because I don't agree with them.

Ok, but let's say you want to stay with your buddy for 6 months who's a tenant of mine where smoking is allowed, but you have to go though my property to get to there. Wouldn't it be more reasonable for me to just let you pass with your cigs in your pocket rather than throwing you into my dungeon?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[yoink 321]

Coreece

*********It's a typical 'my house, my rules' situation. If I'm a smoker, and you're not then I'm not going to smoke in your house, you know?

But if I handcuffed and tossed you into my dungeon just because you didn't leave your cigs at home, you'd think I'm some kind of major asshole...

If those were your rules, and I knew them, I wouldn't bring the cigs into your house...
Your house. Your rules, and I'd respect that. Or I'd stay away.

What I wouldn't do is tell you that the way you're setting up the rules in your area is wrong, just because I don't agree with them.

Ok, but let's say you want to stay with your buddy for 6 months who's a tenant of mine where smoking is allowed, but you have to go though my property to get to there. Wouldn't it be more reasonable for me to just let you pass with your cigs in your pocket rather than throwing you into my dungeon?

Yup. And that's where the analogy breaks down.
Gun laws arise from a belief that (from my point of view) I'm safer if you don't have a gun, than if you do.
With cigarettes the level of risk is entirely different.

I guess I don't understand how your desire to take the most direct route from A - B would top my legally chosen law not to allow people to carry guns.

If you want to carry and it's legal, fine. If you have a reciprocal agreement with another state to carry there, that's fine too. But to use that as a vehicle to trump another states laws in order to carry in that state, well that is not OK.

Can you not see that as an issue?

What if I said the laws in my state trumped yours? What if I married another man in California, and passed through Georgia to a reciprocating gay-rights state, but demanded my marriage be recognized in Georgia on my way through? They'd be right to be upset, yeah? They want none of it...

Again, it's an example. But it's about fairness. I'm not trying to tell you what you can do in your state. Why should you be able to determine the laws of mine?

[Coreece 190]

Quote

With cigarettes the level of risk is entirely different.

Well, just remember that it was you who introduced the analogy...

Quote

If you want to carry and it's legal, fine. If you have a reciprocal agreement with another state to carry there, that's fine too. But to use that as a vehicle to trump another states laws in order to carry in that state, well that is not OK.

Can you not see that as an issue?

no...we're just trying to pass through your intransigent state as quickly as possible. The idea is that legal carriers are not some felonious thugs trying to take over your territory and impose our way of life...if we were, we wouldn't care about any laws trying to stop us, as it has been demonstrated in Chicago.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[jgoose71 0]

SkyDekker

***Or you could easily throw another dozen ideas about what contributes to a violent society.
I don't think it's any one singular thing.

Agreed, it hardly ever is just one thing.

I have to disagree. Poverty and corruption are huge contributors to violence.

I haven't seen any studies on it (probably because gun-o-phobes need to be able to blame the gun), but I don't know of to many places that have these problems and everyone is peaceful and happy.

Chicago and Mexico being prime examples....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[jgoose71 0]

Coreece

Quote

With cigarettes the level of risk is entirely different.

Well, just remember that it was you who introduced the analogy...

***If you want to carry and it's legal, fine. If you have a reciprocal agreement with another state to carry there, that's fine too. But to use that as a vehicle to trump another states laws in order to carry in that state, well that is not OK.

Can you not see that as an issue?

no...we're just trying to pass through your intransigent state as quickly as possible. The idea is that legal carriers are not some felonious thugs trying to take over your territory and impose our way of life...if we were, we wouldn't care about any laws trying to stop us, as it has been demonstrated in Chicago.

I remember a long time ago when before someone was prosecuted for something, investigators looked at a little thing called "Intent"

Of course now a days with everyone trying to use the law for nefarious purposes, everyone is trying to make everything in the law books as black and white as possible with no wiggle room. What ever the guys intent was, well, who cares?

I mean, who doesn't like being turned into a felon and having their life and their family's life ruined because they missed some little detail in the fine print?

Welcome to regulation nation.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything