Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[BillyVance 34]

turtlespeed

***I'm just curious... Bundy hasn't paid the fees for 20 years... So why the hell did it take the BLM that long to actually do something about it in a physical form?

Me too.

But when the feds do shit like this - I have more sympathy for the little guy.

Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[masterrig 1]

BillyVance

******I'm just curious... Bundy hasn't paid the fees for 20 years... So why the hell did it take the BLM that long to actually do something about it in a physical form?

Me too.

But when the feds do shit like this - I have more sympathy for the little guy.

Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!


Chuck

[jclalor 12]

BillyVance

I'm just curious... Bundy hasn't paid the fees for 20 years... So why the hell did it take the BLM that long to actually do something about it in a physical form?

Because it's been to court three times and it looks like they tried everything else to resolve it.

It looks like Bundy is spitting in the eyes of all the ranchers who pay their grazing fees.

[billvon 3,080]

>It used to be liberals who had problems with government fucking over citizens.
>Liberals used to dislike police states. And free speech zones.

And it used to be conservatives who supported the rule of law. But nowadays, they could give a shit about it. Grazing fees? Nah, he's entitled to free grazing from the government. Laws? Ignore them; he's on our side.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!

This has already been debunked several times in this thread, yet you continue to repeat it as if it were true. I'd thought better of you.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em

What next? How about someone opening up an open pit mine where Yosemite used to be? Clear-cutting the Blue Ridge Mountains? Hell yeah, fuck the government, take what you want and piss on everybody else.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

>It used to be liberals who had problems with government fucking over citizens.
>Liberals used to dislike police states. And free speech zones.

And it used to be conservatives who supported the rule of law. But nowadays, they could give a shit about it. Grazing fees? Nah, he's entitled to free grazing from the government. Laws? Ignore them; he's on our side.

Exactly.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em

What next? How about someone opening up an open pit mine where Yosemite used to be? Clear-cutting the Blue Ridge Mountains? Hell yeah, fuck the government, take what you want and piss on everybody else.

Don

Piss on everybody? That's fine. Just don't piss in tortoise habitat. Otherwise, some armed fellas might show up and attempt to dissuade you.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 226]

lawrocket

***

Quote

Me too. Far as I'm concerned, BLM screwed the pooch here. Fuck em

What next? How about someone opening up an open pit mine where Yosemite used to be? Clear-cutting the Blue Ridge Mountains? Hell yeah, fuck the government, take what you want and piss on everybody else.

Don

Piss on everybody? That's fine. Just don't piss in tortoise habitat. Otherwise, some armed fellas might show up and attempt to dissuade you.

WTF?

Are these people seriously not considering the Rheid and China connection?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kawisixer01 0]

quade

***Each new prez has his own way of expressing himself.

What's hilarious about this is that anybody thinks the President of the US (no matter who it is) would give a crap about this low level stuff before any shooting started.

This is NOT the result of anything The White House has said or done. This IS the result of a guy deciding to not pay more than a million dollars in taxes. Where we are right this moment in this case is precisely where we'd be no matter who sat in the Oval.

With your concern about the lack of payment, I'm sure you'd be just as supportive of a couple hundred armed agents showing up at good ol' poster boy Al Sharpton's front door to collect the $1.9 million he and NAN owein back taxes, right?

[quade 4]

kawisixer01

******Each new prez has his own way of expressing himself.

What's hilarious about this is that anybody thinks the President of the US (no matter who it is) would give a crap about this low level stuff before any shooting started.

This is NOT the result of anything The White House has said or done. This IS the result of a guy deciding to not pay more than a million dollars in taxes. Where we are right this moment in this case is precisely where we'd be no matter who sat in the Oval.

With your concern about the lack of payment, I'm sure you'd be just as supportive of a couple hundred armed agents showing up at good ol' poster boy Al Sharpton's front door to collect the $1.9 million he and NAN owein back taxes, right?

If he owes taxes, he can either pay them or go to jail.

Either way it's fine by me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rhaig 0]

quade

If he owes taxes, he can either pay them or go to jail.

Either way it's fine by me.

Option 3: Get the president to headline an event to make money for the group that owes all those taxes.

--
Rob

[masterrig 1]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!

This has already been debunked several times in this thread, yet you continue to repeat it as if it were true. I'd thought better of you.

Don

Maybe it isn't oil/gas but I feel there's something behind this other than just evicting a tenant. There seems to be more than enough tortoises to not be endangered. Like Billy asked...Why did it take the BLM 20 yrs. to suddenly act on this? I know, the wheels of government turn slowly but 20-yrs.?


Chuck

[SkyDekker 1,465]

masterrig

***

Quote

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!

This has already been debunked several times in this thread, yet you continue to repeat it as if it were true. I'd thought better of you.

Don

Maybe it isn't oil/gas but I feel there's something behind this other than just evicting a tenant. There seems to be more than enough tortoises to not be endangered. Like Billy asked...Why did it take the BLM 20 yrs. to suddenly act on this? I know, the wheels of government turn slowly but 20-yrs.?


Chuck

Not sure I udnerstand this argument. Many have been saying that the government should use diplomacy in stead of force. Now you are questioning why they didn't use force earlier?

[masterrig 1]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!

This has already been debunked several times in this thread, yet you continue to repeat it as if it were true. I'd thought better of you.

Don

Maybe it isn't oil/gas but I feel there's something behind this other than just evicting a tenant. There seems to be more than enough tortoises to not be endangered. Like Billy asked...Why did it take the BLM 20 yrs. to suddenly act on this? I know, the wheels of government turn slowly but 20-yrs.?


Chuck

Not sure I udnerstand this argument. Many have been saying that the government should use diplomacy in stead of force. Now you are questioning why they didn't use force earlier?

No, I'm not questioning why they didn't use force. I'm thinking they could've used the courts a little more than they did.


Chuck

[DanG 1]

Quote

No, I'm not questioning why they didn't use force. I'm thinking they could've used the courts a little more than they did.

After 20 years, at some point you have to enforce the law.

Do I think they needed to show up with an Army? Absolutely not. But nice letters didn't seem to be doing the trick. A site visit was in order.

- Dan G

[SkyDekker 1,465]

They have two rulings against the rancher. They have been working trying to renegotiate payment.

How many rulings should they have before they enforce something?

[masterrig 1]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I guess, there were to big money deals for the feds 20 yrs. ago. No Senator was gonna be 'set' for life!

This has already been debunked several times in this thread, yet you continue to repeat it as if it were true. I'd thought better of you.

Don

I went back through all the posts I made in this thread and found where I made mention of any politician 'profiting' from this twice. Once before it was debunked and once after. I don't think that counts as 'continuing' to repeat it!!


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

DanG

Quote

No, I'm not questioning why they didn't use force. I'm thinking they could've used the courts a little more than they did.

After 20 years, at some point you have to enforce the law.

Do I think they needed to show up with an Army? Absolutely not. But nice letters didn't seem to be doing the trick. A site visit was in order.

Earlier in this thread, I suggested a visit from the feds... not an army but a couple agents but that was ruled out as being too costly.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

As I mentioned in my last post, they could've sent a couple agents to make their point but as I said, that was shot down as 'costly'. I think that would make a better impression than letters. With all the 'scams' in the world today, letters don't mean much. Send a couple badges and you make your point... you don't need an army for one man.

edit to add: The feds could've gotten a warrant on him for 'trespass', let him cool his heels in County for 10-days. If, that didn't work, make it twenty days. Maybe something like that. The feds just dragged their feet on this one and wound-up looking foolish.


Chuck

[quade 4]

masterrig

Earlier in this thread, I suggested a visit from the feds... not an army but a couple agents but that was ruled out as being too costly.

Not quite. You suggested that ONLY a face to face visit was required as if to suggest this entire thing could be avoided by two local BLM agents knocking on a door. I'm fairly certain that over the years this was part of the chain of escalation.

You and others have also implied this "siege" was the first time the rancher had ever been made aware of the situation he had created by allowing his cattle to graze on public land without paying the accosted fees to to so.

That is all nonsense whipped up into a right-wing militia frenzy by the family with the assistance of said same groups.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[GeorgiaDon 379]

masterrig

***

Quote

No, I'm not questioning why they didn't use force. I'm thinking they could've used the courts a little more than they did.

After 20 years, at some point you have to enforce the law.

Do I think they needed to show up with an Army? Absolutely not. But nice letters didn't seem to be doing the trick. A site visit was in order.

Earlier in this thread, I suggested a visit from the feds... not an army but a couple agents but that was ruled out as being too costly.


ChuckWhat do you think a "nice little face-to-face" would have accomplished that 20 years of litigation didn't? It's not as if this guy had no idea anything was amiss until the BLM started to remove his cattle. He's been in "fuck you" mode for 20 years.

Bundy is now claiming effective ownership of a huge swath of public land. His cattle are grazing through a large part of Lake Mead National Recreational Area and the Valley of Fire State Park. The situation is not much different from a mining company claiming that they don't recognize the United States Government, and then opening an open pit mine in the middle of Big Bend National Park.

I'll admit that this case has a certain resonance with me. When I lived in Arizona, I was very frustrated with ranchers who closed off BLM land and denied everyone else their legal right to access that public land for hiking and camping. I ran into this at a number of places in both Arizona and southern New Mexico. For the price of a grazing permit, these ranchers got (well, took) what amounted to personal ownership of huge tracts of land, including in some cases entire mountain ranges. BLM officials just referred me to local law enforcement. Appeals to local law enforcement went nowhere, as they either were friendly with the rancher or decided it wasn't something they wanted to get mixed up in.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DanG 1]

Quote

For the price of a grazing permit, these ranchers got (well, took) what amounted to personal ownership of huge tracts of land, including in some cases entire mountain ranges.

Tell me more about these huge...tracts of land.

(Monty Python reference)

- Dan G

[billvon 3,080]

>With your concern about the lack of payment, I'm sure you'd be just as
>supportive of a couple hundred armed agents showing up at good ol' poster boy
>Al Sharpton's front door to collect the $1.9 million he and NAN owein back taxes,
>right?

Don't think you'd need more than one. But if he got a dozen of his friends, and they brought guns, and they started saying things like "there's gonna be some shootin' if anyone tries to arrest Al!" then yes, it might make sense to bring 100 armed agents.

(Unless he was a conservative. Then requiring him to pay taxes would be a travesty, and he'd be a national hero.)

[Amazon 7]

quade

***Earlier in this thread, I suggested a visit from the feds... not an army but a couple agents but that was ruled out as being too costly.

Not quite. You suggested that ONLY a face to face visit was required as if to suggest this entire thing could be avoided by two local BLM agents knocking on a door. I'm fairly certain that over the years this was part of the chain of escalation.

You and others have also implied this "siege" was the first time the rancher had ever been made aware of the situation he had created by allowing his cattle to graze on public land without paying the accosted fees to to so.

That is all nonsense whipped up into a right-wing militia frenzy by the family with the assistance of said same groups.

I think the caramel color of the president resonates far more with the right wing militias... and I would lay odds to the rancher and his family that is a motivation as well. There is also the who was elected and took office in 1993. You know that not a one of them had any issue with the gubbmint while the Shrub was in office.
Things change.. screw the government for what ever reason and eventually they are going to bring a lot of pain to those who think they are getting away with something.