Feds lay siege to Nevada ranch

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

***

Quote

My question is, has that former drug dealing, counterfeit preacher made a payment, yet?

I'm still waiting on kelpdiver's help sharing his cursory review of this. I personally haven't been able to find anything, yet. I do find it interesting that the IRS would allow someone who works for a non-profit to make payments on a near $2MM dollar debt, and still have the president show up for dinner...

I dont know but I wonder if he will reply. Seeing how the race card has been tossed in now

I don't think it's asking too much for you to actually read the thread before posting an d-bag remark like that, given that I did reply a full 6 hours earlier.

I know you don't have any way to respond to my answer, but you were fully aware that I did give replies.

[jclalor 12]

rushmc

***

Quote

My question is, has that former drug dealing, counterfeit preacher made a payment, yet?

I'm still waiting on kelpdiver's help sharing his cursory review of this. I personally haven't been able to find anything, yet. I do find it interesting that the IRS would allow someone who works for a non-profit to make payments on a near $2MM dollar debt, and still have the president show up for dinner...

I dont know but I wonder if he will reply. Seeing how the race card has been tossed in now

So is there there ever a time when tossing in the "race card" is valid ?

[Amazon 7]

jclalor

******

Quote

My question is, has that former drug dealing, counterfeit preacher made a payment, yet?

I'm still waiting on kelpdiver's help sharing his cursory review of this. I personally haven't been able to find anything, yet. I do find it interesting that the IRS would allow someone who works for a non-profit to make payments on a near $2MM dollar debt, and still have the president show up for dinner...

I dont know but I wonder if he will reply. Seeing how the race card has been tossed in now

So is there there ever a time when tossing in the "race card" is valid ?

I am betting that in some peoples mirrors.... that would be a no.

[rehmwa 2]

jclalor

So is there there ever a time when tossing in the "race card" is valid ?

I think the term is pretty much defined as using race as an argument when it is not applicable in reality. So no.

However, when race is a legitimate input to an issue, it should be put out there in context as a real and valid point.

Playing it to stifle the debate is WRONG
Claiming that all the other guys are doing is playing the card - is just as wrong

I believe both sides knee jerk to those actions way too much.
I think that playing it too much has shut off productive discussion to a huge extent over the last couple decades such that most people have no clue even to what they are debating other than they don't want to win more so they just want the other guys to lose.


I suspect people are well divided, though, on who is abusing their respective arguments more......

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

jclalor

******

Quote

My question is, has that former drug dealing, counterfeit preacher made a payment, yet?

I'm still waiting on kelpdiver's help sharing his cursory review of this. I personally haven't been able to find anything, yet. I do find it interesting that the IRS would allow someone who works for a non-profit to make payments on a near $2MM dollar debt, and still have the president show up for dinner...

I dont know but I wonder if he will reply. Seeing how the race card has been tossed in now

So is there there ever a time when tossing in the "race card" is valid ?

Yes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rehmwa

***So is there there ever a time when tossing in the "race card" is valid ?

I think the term is pretty much defined as using race as an argument when it is not applicable in reality. So no.

However, when race is a legitimate input to an issue, it should be put out there in context as a real and valid point.

Playing it to stifle the debate is WRONG
Claiming that all the other guys are doing is playing the card - is just as wrong


The person playing it never uses the phrase. It only is invoked by the recipient, either because they feel it was done inappropriately, or because they can't defend their stance in that context. Which is what we have right here. (the recent Negro comments by Bundy only adds to that).

When the obvious faults in trying to equate Sharpton to Bundy were pointed out, the defenders here didn't try to address it at all, but continue to say "I just don't trust him." Heads in the hands is pretty much racism at its most basic. 'I know they're different and I'm going to disregard any evidence that might suggest otherwise, and instead hold onto my unfounded beliefs.'

[rehmwa 2]

kelpdiver

The person playing it never uses the phrase. It only is invoked by the recipient, either because they feel it was done inappropriately, or because they can't defend their stance in that context.

silly statement kelp - "I'm now playing the race card" no kidding the player doesn't use the phrase, doesn't make it false....

if the other (honestly) feels it was done inappropriately, there are two positions also - he's right and it was done unfairly, or he's wrong and it's a difference of opinion.

(note - I'm talking in general, no so much in context with the up-thread. I've stopped reading for some time - will try to catch up)


edit: side note - to me, Bundy sounds like a recalcitrant old fart that has some specific deeply held beliefs about government, but is leveraging them for personal gain.....(convenient how deep philosophy seems to manifest when shored up with personal gain)......he also has some antiquated social notions that many do in that generation, that the rest of us have hopefully outgrown. the gov side of this is even worse in trying to make an example in a heavy handed manner that we should also all be very concerned to see emerging....no winners here.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

rehmwa

***The person playing it never uses the phrase. It only is invoked by the recipient, either because they feel it was done inappropriately, or because they can't defend their stance in that context.

silly statement kelp - "I'm now playing the race card" no kidding the player doesn't use the phrase, doesn't make it false....

if the other (honestly) feels it was done inappropriately, there are two positions also - he's right and it was done unfairly, or he's wrong and it's a difference of opinion.

(note - I'm talking in general, no so much in context with the up-thread. I've stopped reading for some time - will try to catch up)


edit: side note - to me, Bundy sounds like a recalcitrant old fart that has some specific deeply held beliefs about government, but is leveraging them for personal gain.....(convenient how deep philosophy seems to manifest when shored up with personal gain)......he also has some antiquated social notions that many do in that generation, that the rest of us have hopefully outgrown. the gov side of this is even worse in trying to make an example in a heavy handed manner that we should also all be very concerned to see emerging....no winners here.

I had a chance to listen to the full version of his comments (AKA the version not heavily edited by Media Matters)
While his comments were awkward and hard to listen too, his point was not one full of racist tones but rather, a comparison of whether full slavery of times past was worse than the kind of slavery the type of welfare we have today puts on the inner cities (not just minorities)

A point worth consideration
Too bad he presented it so poorly

But the left and its media need to destroy this guy and any who supported him becasue after all, big government is their god and it is beyond reproach (to them)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

even Rand jettisoned this fool, but you can't give him up. The guy who trumpets the flag when convenient, then disavows its existence.

Amazement.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

even Rand jettisoned this fool, but you can't give him up. The guy who trumpets the flag when convenient, then disavows its existence.

Amazement.

I never took him up or dumped him (buth then, I am not is politics)

but is it say that the left is trying to make him out a racist. That is not what his comments were but, it is what it is and the left would rather follow Media matters that have a diolog about the truth

THIS is what is amazing but understandable

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

but is it say that the left is trying to make him out a racist. That is not what his comments were but, it is what it is and the left would rather follow Media matters that have a diolog about the truth

THIS is what is amazing but understandable

yes - amazing. He's a fucking racist. There's no context problem here when he talks about negro women getting too many abortions.

Again, why did the GOP drop him so fast? They were willing to defend his entitlement grabbing, but are all failing for the liberal media smear job? Please. Give us better shit.

[Stumpy 284]

kelpdiver

***
but is it say that the left is trying to make him out a racist. That is not what his comments were but, it is what it is and the left would rather follow Media matters that have a diolog about the truth

THIS is what is amazing but understandable

yes - amazing. He's a fucking racist. There's no context problem here when he talks about negro women getting too many abortions.

Again, why did the GOP drop him so fast? They were willing to defend his entitlement grabbing, but are all failing for the liberal media smear job? Please. Give us better shit.

You forget - this is the guy who thinks Limbaugh is a balanced, unbigoted journalist. He's kind of beyond help.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[turtlespeed 226]

Stumpy

You forget - this is the guy who thinks Limbaugh is a balanced, unbigoted journalist. He's kind of beyond help.

Where do you consider Pelosi on your scale?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mistercwood 287]

turtlespeed

***

You forget - this is the guy who thinks Limbaugh is a balanced, unbigoted journalist. He's kind of beyond help.

Where do you consider Pelosi on your scale?

Not a journalist?

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

***
but is it say that the left is trying to make him out a racist. That is not what his comments were but, it is what it is and the left would rather follow Media matters that have a diolog about the truth

THIS is what is amazing but understandable

yes - amazing. He's a fucking racist. There's no context problem here when he talks about negro women getting too many abortions.

Again, why did the GOP drop him so fast? They were willing to defend his entitlement grabbing, but are all failing for the liberal media smear job? Please. Give us better shit.\


Your claim or racism is on the same level as this guy
Sad at best

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/27/affirmative-action-lawyer-calls-high-cort-decision-on-michigan-schools-racist/

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

Your claim or racism is on the same level as this guy
Sad at best

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/27/affirmative-action-lawyer-calls-high-cort-decision-on-michigan-schools-racist/

struggling to see the tie-in, other that you'll fling out anything at this point. Race based admissions are generally unsupportable and California made a similar change 7 years earlier.

Just a suggestion - the best way to defend your claim that he's really not a racist is to show us how his remarks were taken out of context. With actual words, not irrelevant side bars.

As Amazon posted, even HANNITY has dropped anchor on this racist, leaving you pretty much alone now in attempting to defend. Good luck...you'll need it.

[Amazon 7]

kelpdiver

***
Your claim or racism is on the same level as this guy
Sad at best

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/27/affirmative-action-lawyer-calls-high-cort-decision-on-michigan-schools-racist/

struggling to see the tie-in, other that you'll fling out anything at this point. Race based admissions are generally unsupportable and California made a similar change 7 years earlier.

Just a suggestion - the best way to defend your claim that he's really not a racist is to show us how his remarks were taken out of context. With actual words, not irrelevant side bars.

As Amazon posted, even HANNITY has dropped anchor on this racist, leaving you pretty much alone now in attempting to defend. Good luck...you'll need it.

Having grown up where I did with who I did... I realize that there are legions of people who believe themselves not to be racist... just like the good old Welfare Cowboy. BUT when you start rolling out the stereotype of the welfare PORCH N@#$@# you need to realize that yes indeed you are indeed a dyed in the wool racist.
It also does not help ole Cliven that we was raised up believing that blacks were damned by the lord.. so said the Mormon Church till Jimmy set em straight in the late 70's with a threat to take away their tax exemptions for that form of of institutional racism. That does not mean that a hell of a lot of normons do not hold those beliefs any longer but I have met more than a few who do hold the view, they just cannot preach it any longer.

[Skyrad 0]

The USA has illegal immigrants and drug dealers crossing in masses across its southern border but focuses on some allegedly trespassing cattle and send 200 highly armed men with air support to defend tortoises?

You Yanks are funny.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

***
Your claim or racism is on the same level as this guy
Sad at best

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/27/affirmative-action-lawyer-calls-high-cort-decision-on-michigan-schools-racist/

struggling to see the tie-in, other that you'll fling out anything at this point. Race based admissions are generally unsupportable and California made a similar change 7 years earlier.

Just a suggestion - the best way to defend your claim that he's really not a racist is to show us how his remarks were taken out of context. With actual words, not irrelevant side bars.

As Amazon posted, even HANNITY has dropped anchor on this racist, leaving you pretty much alone now in attempting to defend. Good luck...you'll need it.

Couple things
First, I do not have to drop him because I never picked him up
And I addressed the talking heads dropping him in an earlier post
Second, I am comparing you to he who is claiming the SC ruling is racist. It is the exact same mind set IMO

Third
You want to go with and beileive Media Matters and their butchering of his comments, fine. You loss

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

Couple things
First, I do not have to drop him because I never picked him up
And I addressed the talking heads dropping him in an earlier post
Second, I am comparing you to he who is claiming the SC ruling is racist. It is the exact same mind set IMO

Third
You want to go with and beileive Media Matters and their butchering of his comments, fine. You loss

So when we talked about lame uses of the race card...here we go. He said something was racist. I (and Hannity) said something was racist. Obviously we're identical and if the first guy is reaching, so much we.

But then again, this is the depth of discourse we've come to expect from you. Again - if his comments were butchered, it should be very easy for you to show how. But since you've declined to do so after multiple invitations, I can safely presume you're blowing hot air.

[rushmc 23]

Read my other post. Well explained

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

Read my other post. Well explained

yes, came back here to say I saw the thread. Since it appears to have video, I won't be able to review and comment before the evening.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

***Read my other post. Well explained

yes, came back here to say I saw the thread. Since it appears to have video, I won't be able to review and comment before the evening.

Fair enough

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>You want to go with and beileive Media Matters and their butchering of his
>comments, fine.

Here are his actual comments in full. Still want to defend him?

================
. . .and so what I’ve testified to ya, I was in the Watts riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the Negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy – so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structure than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people.

And we need to have those people join us and be with us…. not, not come to our party.
================================

[rushmc 23]

Don't have to read it. I saw it with my own eyes And I will defend him against race boaters. Others should too. But many like the Kool aid flavor too much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln