"We the people .... " has never been true and never will be...

[shropshire 0]

.... discuss

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[D22369 0]

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

sure looks good on paper but there is no perfect union, a lack of justice, not much domestic tranquility and sure as hell lack a common defense with the jackasses in charge failing to secure our borders.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[jakee 1,596]

Hey Quade, I saw that.

Looks like you need to learn your American documents

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[quade 4]

jakee

Hey Quade, I saw that.

Looks like you need to learn your American documents

Had a momentary brain fart when I saw some palmy bastard bitching about the USA. Adrenalin kicked in. Forgot what document was even being "discussed."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

bastard is a bit strong .. seems like a PA to me ......

where's the bleeding moderators when you need them??

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[PiLFy 3]

shropshire

.... discuss

We the People... broke the British yoke, & formed a far better country. A Country that eventually became a superpower, & rose to its ideals for the better part of 200 years. Though, the US certainly has some housecleaning to do, now.

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world. Are some of our British friends still feeling penis envy, all these years later? Let's not argue, boys. We can go have lunch at a nice German restaurant ...

[shropshire 0]

"formed a far better country" .. um no you didn't but that's not the point (which you COMPLETELY missed).

The point is do the 'People' in that country feel in control at all, do they actually have a say, a real say or is it just fluff, with a few, a very few people actually in control?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[shropshire 0]

WTF .. it's not about comparing to other countries .. LOOK INSIDE, what do YOU see?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[quade 4]

shropshire

The point is do the 'People' in that country feel in control at all, do they actually have a say, a real say or is it just fluff, with a few, a very few people actually in control?

It was a land of corporations, by corporations, and for corporations right from the beginning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Company

I blame England.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PiLFy 3]

shropshire

"formed a far better country" .. um no you didn't but that's not the point (which you COMPLETELY missed).

The point is do the 'People' in that country feel in control at all, do they actually have a say, a real say or is it just fluff, with a few, a very few people actually in control?

No, my cited facts were exactly the point. You put out an obvious troll. You got called on it. Truth hurts, huh??

[shropshire 0]

PiLFy

***"formed a far better country" .. um no you didn't but that's not the point (which you COMPLETELY missed).

The point is do the 'People' in that country feel in control at all, do they actually have a say, a real say or is it just fluff, with a few, a very few people actually in control?

No, my cited facts were exactly the point. You put out an obvious troll. You got called on it. Truth hurts, huh??

You could not be more wrong

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[wmw999 2,589]

Quote

The point is do the 'People' in that country feel in control at all, do they actually have a say, a real say or is it just fluff, with a few, a very few people actually in control?

If they all know each other, and go to the same country club, there's a potential that they all have some power.

But power is one of the most powerful substances there is; some people will deliberately put others down just so they can feel it, even though they have it anyway. Nearly everyone likes to throw it around every now and then.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 2,151]

PiLFy

***.... discuss

We the People... broke the British yoke, & formed a far better country. A Country that eventually became a superpower, & rose to its ideals for the better part of 200 years. Though, the US certainly has some housecleaning to do, now.

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world. Are some of our British friends still feeling penis envy, all these years later? Let's not argue, boys. We can go have lunch at a nice German restaurant ...

Well, some of those people were actually only 3/5 of a person, IIRC, and they didn't get to have any say whatsoever in the "perfection" of the union. The wealthy landowners did, of course, manage to avoid having to pay for the French and Indian War that protected their holdings.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world.

And that's two.

Any more Americans here want to show that they don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PiLFy 3]

jakee

Quote

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world.

And that's two.

Any more Americans here want to show that they don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution?

04/19/1775. I know my history, Limey.

[PiLFy 3]

kallend

******.... discuss

We the People... broke the British yoke, & formed a far better country. A Country that eventually became a superpower, & rose to its ideals for the better part of 200 years. Though, the US certainly has some housecleaning to do, now.

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world. Are some of our British friends still feeling penis envy, all these years later? Let's not argue, boys. We can go have lunch at a nice German restaurant ...

Well, some of those people were actually only 3/5 of a person, IIRC, and they didn't get to have any say whatsoever in the "perfection" of the union. The wealthy landowners did, of course, manage to avoid having to pay for the French and Indian War that protected their holdings.

I never said it happened all at once.

[billvon 3,120]

>but there is no perfect union

Well, it didn't say "in order to form a perfect union."

>a lack of justice

Sometimes. But on balance we do OK - compared to other countries, and compared to our own country in the past.

>not much domestic tranquility

Hmm. Given that most of human history has been a long series of brutal feuds and wars - and given that we've only had one, over 150 years ago - I'd say we're doing OK. (Note - angst over politics does not equal "not much domestic tranquility.")

> and sure as hell lack a common defense with the jackasses in charge failing to
>secure our borders.

"Common defense" means stopping the people who want to kill you and your family and take your stuff, not stopping the people who want to mow your lawn for $4 an hour if you allow them to.

[D22369 0]

Quote

"Common defense" means stopping the people who want to kill you and your family and take your stuff, not stopping the people who want to mow your lawn for $4 an hour if you allow them to.

I am not worried about them, but if they can get in ...

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[jakee 1,596]

PiLFy

***

Quote

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world.

And that's two.

Any more Americans here want to show that they don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution?

04/19/1775. I know my history, Limey.

Then why are you talking about the Revolution and the Declaration in a thread about the Constitution?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[PiLFy 3]

jakee

******

Quote

It's been almost a full 239 years since the FU heard round the world.

And that's two.

Any more Americans here want to show that they don't know the difference between the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution?

04/19/1775. I know my history, Limey.

Then why are you talking about the Revolution and the Declaration in a thread about the Constitution?

Because that's where it started, & the Troll is British.

[shropshire 0]

Once again it was not troll .. your clear lack on understanding of this (and other) conversations - says way more about you.

If you don't like it .... well, that's your problem not mine.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Boomerdog 0]

Over time, we have redefined who is part of that "We the people..." It's been a struggle and cost the lives of approximately 650,000 Americans between the years 1861-1865. That struggle and debate continues to this day. But it should not be lost that even though the United States is very young compared to a majority of countries, we enjoy the longest continuity of government in recorded history.

Right now, we are seeing the result of several decades of government where both parties are perceived to be paying much more attention to Wall Street and "K" Street (the street in Washington D.C. where most of the Lobbyists maintain their offices) than Main Street. The mood of the country right now is moving from "slow burn" to mad as hell and we just might see this play out in the next election coming this November. Sometimes, the people have to vote the bums out to send the message only to get the new bums in and the cycle continues.

Is "We the people" valid? In the balance, yes. But also try to understand here, that from the day the Constitution was ratified by all of the States, America has been and will continue to be, an experiment in how a people collectively choose to govern themselves. We don't always get it right and the endeavor to form "a more perfect union" does not mean we will get to perfect, but the "experiment" is certainly worth the try.

[shropshire 0]

Great post - thanks.

So, how do you identify the folks who are disenfranchised and then how do you rectify that situation ... N.B it 'may' not be in the interest of those responsible to make those changes.

Also, can you measure the size of the "we are NOT the people" group

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[jakee 1,596]

PiLFy

Because that's where it started, & the Troll is British.

Right....

I think there's something that you and Quade and a few other Americans don't understand about the general British view of American history: we simply don't care. Honestly and truthfully, you would find it incredibly difficult to find a British man on the street who bears any sort of grudge, humorous or serious, over the War of Independance. Heck, most people probably don't even know it was us you were fighting against.

Britain simply has too much history for us to get worked up about every country or colony we've ever fallen out with. America? Don't care. India? Don't care. Spain? Don't care. South Africa? Don't care. The only two countries that any reasonable number of people in Britain 'dislike' for historical reasons are France and Germany. That's it.

When it comes to America, the secret is that we actually quite like it. It's big and brash and loud and that's pretty cool. We dislike a lot of Americans because you're big and brash and loud, but that's another story

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

Spot on

Some of them are so paranoid, it makes me laugh my tits off. This thread is a clear example.. no one is allowed to start a discussion - because it's ALWAYS seen by the feeble minded few as anti-American FFS.

Plus .. the kind of people who shout TROLL ...bwhaaaaa.. just don't realise how stupid it makes them sound I just can't take them serious at all, they have zero to add. I couldn't care less what they say.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome