7 million Americans sign up for the ACA.

[rushmc 23]

How about a video?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRU-FTHTJpM

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Channman 2]

Poor women, to think she spent all that money on a college education to only fail in her career. A mind is a terrible thing to waste when you hitch it to a dumb ass policy.

[propblast 0]

I have a question for both sides. Who pays for it all?

I see this driving taxes up and the debt further through the roof. Is there anyway to mitigate that? Will it just fail when there is no money left? Will doctors give care with no pay?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Propblast

[kelpdiver 2]

propblast

I see this driving taxes up and the debt further through the roof. Is there anyway to mitigate that? Will it just fail when there is no money left? Will doctors give care with no pay?

do you not see any of the potential savings from it? Most notably, that insured care is much cheaper than ER care? Or that preventative medicine saves much more than acute care?

From a deficit perspective, it was quite interesting, or telling, that the Ryan balanced budget plan eliminate all of the potential costs of Obamacare, but retained all the new taxes that came with it.

[rushmc 23]

We can now subtract some more from this "number"

Quote

Roughly 1,800 New Jersey children had their insurance plans cancelled last week due to Obamacare.

With the flurry of cancellation notices hitting mailboxes across the Garden State, one parent, Bob Miotla, told the NJ.com news of his son's cancellation made him "extremely angry."

"Without having that safety net, if an illness arises, we will probably take him to the ER," said Miotla, who is on Medicare and disabled.

Obamacare's new mandated requirements killed New Jersey's low-cost children's insurance coverage plan, FamilyCare Advantage. The plan, offered by Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey, was designed for children whose parents make too much money to qualify for Medicaid and offered medical, dental, and vision coverage for just $144 a month. The program, which was the first of its kind in the nation, was implemented six years ago and considered a model for others states seeking economical ways to provide quality coverage for kids from working class families.

Yet, since FamilyCare Advantage lacked things like mental health services, Obamacare deemed the children's 1,800 plans illegal and the program shuttered last week.

by Wynton Hall


BTW
It was reported on nearly all networks this week end that the 7 million number is based on those who went to the sights, and gave personal information
There is no relationship to those who actually purchased a policy and THEN they said that 15% or more who may have purchased policies have not made any payments

More cooked books

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[propblast 0]

kelpdiver

***
I see this driving taxes up and the debt further through the roof. Is there anyway to mitigate that? Will it just fail when there is no money left? Will doctors give care with no pay?

do you not see any of the potential savings from it? Most notably, that insured care is much cheaper than ER care? Or that preventative medicine saves much more than acute care?

From a deficit perspective, it was quite interesting, or telling, that the Ryan balanced budget plan eliminate all of the potential costs of Obamacare, but retained all the new taxes that came with it.

I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math numbers.

And as far as government keeping all the incoming revenue( Ryan). I am not shocked nor do I agree.

I guess I would hate to see this nation pushed under by healthcare debt which seems to be both what republicans and democrats are saying.

Propblast

[kallend 2,112]

propblast

******
I see this driving taxes up and the debt further through the roof. Is there anyway to mitigate that? Will it just fail when there is no money left? Will doctors give care with no pay?

do you not see any of the potential savings from it? Most notably, that insured care is much cheaper than ER care? Or that preventative medicine saves much more than acute care?

From a deficit perspective, it was quite interesting, or telling, that the Ryan balanced budget plan eliminate all of the potential costs of Obamacare, but retained all the new taxes that came with it.

I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money.

True, but emergency coronary bypass surgery is far far far more expensive than taking statins or an ACE inhibitor.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

propblast

I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math numbers.

Well, compare any ER bill you've ever heard of with any office visit bill. Basically a factor of 10 differential. Working against it, however, is that the insured person may take more office visits, whereas they would only go to the ER when in need.

Quote

I guess I would hate to see this nation pushed under by healthcare debt which seems to be both what republicans and democrats are saying.

The unbooked Medicare deficit was measured in the tens of trillions before the ACA passed, dwarfing the potential red ink from SS in the 21st century. That problem is already here. Personally I only see that being solved with a successful attack on obesity and the resulting type II diabetes and coronary failures. If you're looking out for the long term economic health of the nation, this calls for invasive, draconian Government policy.

[billvon 3,080]

>I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just
>can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math
>numbers.

Cost of standard prenatal care over the course of a pregnancy: $2000 average
Cost of care for spina bifida over one child's lifetime: $532,000 average

Which would you rather pay?

[propblast 0]

But when no money is left. Where does it come from? No matter the cost, when there is no money.....

Propblast

[airdvr 210]

billvon

>I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just
>can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math
>numbers.

Cost of standard prenatal care over the course of a pregnancy: $2000 average
Cost of care for spina bifida over one child's lifetime: $532,000 average

Which would you rather pay?

I didn't realize the ACA came with a cure for SB. Bravo!

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[GeorgiaDon 379]

airdvr

***>I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just
>can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math
>numbers.

Cost of standard prenatal care over the course of a pregnancy: $2000 average
Cost of care for spina bifida over one child's lifetime: $532,000 average

Which would you rather pay?

I didn't realize the ACA came with a cure for SB. Bravo!It's remarkable that the concept that prevention is less expensive than treating a life-long incurable condition is too much for some people to understand.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 23]

GeorgiaDon

******>I guess the realist in me says no. Preventative or ER it still costs money. I just
>can't logically see where the numbers work. Can you show me?Like with Math
>numbers.

Cost of standard prenatal care over the course of a pregnancy: $2000 average
Cost of care for spina bifida over one child's lifetime: $532,000 average

Which would you rather pay?

I didn't realize the ACA came with a cure for SB. Bravo!It's remarkable that the concept that prevention is less expensive than treating a life-long incurable condition is too much for some people to understand.

Don

I was just informed I will now be required under the ACA to see my Dr 4 times a year

Ya, its gonna be cheaper

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

I was just informed I will now be required under the ACA to see my Dr 4 times a year

Unless you can show that in the actual law, I'm going to call BS on this. If it is in the law, then it would apply to everyone, and I have received no such notice.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[normiss 860]

I'll second that.

[Amazon 7]

Or someone is being secretly tested by their employer for harmful particulate matter in the work environment.

[normiss 860]

Nah.
They'd not want the risk of an outsider finding anything.
Company testing is how they do those things.
In my experience anyway.

Including the layoff contracts in re: the amount paid out to me vs. retaining the right to sue for the sick building.

[airdvr 210]

GeorgiaDon

******>I

Cost of standard prenatal care over the course of a pregnancy: $2000 average
Cost of care for spina bifida over one child's lifetime: $532,000 average

Which would you rather pay?

I didn't realize the ACA came with a cure for SB. Bravo!It's remarkable that the concept that prevention is less expensive than treating a life-long incurable condition is too much for some people to understand.

Don

The quote insinuated that proper pre-natal care would prevent spina bifida and the associated costs. It's not an exclusive relationship.

Let me give you an example; Head Start.

Quote

We spend more than $7 billion providing Head Start to nearly 1 million children each year. And finally there is indisputable evidence about the program's effectiveness, provided by the Department of Health and Human Services: Head Start simply does not work.

According to the Head Start Impact Study, which was quite comprehensive, the positive effects of the program were minimal and vanished by the end of first grade. Head Start graduates performed about the same as students of similar income and social status who were not part of the program. These results were so shocking that the HHS team sat on them for several years, according to Russ Whitehurst of the Brookings Institution, who said, "I guess they were trying to rerun the data to see if they could come up with anything positive. They couldn't."

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/opre/research/project/head-start-impact-study-and-follow-up

One more government boondoggle that has no real effects.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,465]

It is if a disease is preventated or treated in the early stages.

Significantly cheaper.

[airdvr 210]

SkyDekker

It is if a disease is preventated or treated in the early stages.

Significantly cheaper.

Agreed. Show me where early treatment will prevent SB.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[SkyDekker 1,465]

airdvr

***It is if a disease is preventated or treated in the early stages.

Significantly cheaper.

Agreed. Show me where early treatment will prevent SB.

Looking at one disease and then proclaiming that preventative care is useless and a waste of money is silly.

[wmw999 2,551]

Quote

Show me where early treatment will prevent SB.

From NIH:

Quote

The exact causes of neural tube defects aren't known. You're at greater risk of having an infant with a neural tube defect if you
•Are obese
•Have poorly controlled diabetes
•Take certain antiseizure medicines

Getting enough folic acid, a type of B vitamin, before and during pregnancy prevents most neural tube defects.

Won't prevent all of them, but the taking of B vitamins by women who are trying to get pregnant, or engaging in behavior that can lead to it , will prevent a noticeable proportion.

It was an example; vitamin B doesn't require a prescription. Smoking doesn't always cause emphysema, COPD, or cancer, and cessation of smoking doesn't always prevent them. But most people accept that the chance of those maladies goes up with smoking, and down with not smoking. And so most companies' health plans now pay for smoking cessation -- it's cheaper than treating emphysema, COPD, or cancer.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

The quote insinuated that proper pre-natal care would prevent spina bifida and the associated costs. It's not an exclusive relationship.

Although there are multiple causes of spina bifida, many of them not well understood, some factors are amenable to preventative treatment. Certain medications, as well as low folic acid/vitamen B-12 levels, and conditions resulting in a high fever early in pregnancy have been implicated. Risk from each of these can be reduced by prenatal care. A doctor can catch conflicts between medications and pregnancy, or order blood tests to measure folic acid levels and suggest supplements, or initiate treatment for infections before a dangerously high fever is produced. But of course these things can be done only if the woman actually has a doctor, as opposed to visiting the ER or a clinic and seeing a different doctor every time.

Or perhaps you were suggesting that as long as we can't prevent 100% of spina bifida cases we should not try to prevent any? Is that what you mean about an "exclusive relationship"?

Quote

According to the Head Start Impact Study, which was quite comprehensive, the positive effects of the program were minimal and vanished by the end of first grade. Head Start graduates performed about the same as students of similar income and social status who were not part of the program.

I've read that too. It may be that kids that young don't really benefit from what amounts to "pre-kindergarden". It may also be that subsequent schooling tends to hold back the brightest students, forcing everyone into the same narrow performance range.

At any rate, if your argument is going to be that failure in one thing means you're going to fail in everything, it's a wonder we (as a species) ever managed to make it out of the trees. I guess "if at first you don't succeed, try and try again" doesn't apply in your world? Can you honestly say that everything you have ever done has been a resounding success, that you have never failed at anything or tried a single thing that didn't work brilliantly the first time?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]Personally I only see that being solved with a successful attack on obesity and the resulting type II diabetes and coronary failures. If you're looking out for the long term economic health of the nation, this calls for invasive, draconian Government policy.

[airdvr 210]

Of course any intelligent person would want people to have access to good pre-natal care, but it's no guarantee of success. It's the absolute statements that bother me....early treatment may help, not will help. To the uninformed it's misleading and so much about ACA is designed to mislead. It's not the Affordable Healthcare Act, it's the Affordable Health Insurance Act.

Wait until the newly insured learn about deductibles, because I fear most of them a; have no concept of how deductibles work and b; have no intention of paying any more for their healthcare than the insurance premiums.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne