wmw999 2,588
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Bolas 5
wmw999
Most people got treated. Generally only black people (and mostly only earlier) got turned away entirely. People (without insurance or ID) died because of it.
So your saying that critical cases, such as auto accidents brought in by the EMTs, people died because they couldn't find their IDs? Hospitals were refusing to Triage and stabilize people?
Or was it just poor people that tried to treat the ER as their primary care were turned away and just happened to die, largely due to their lifestyle?
Probably the same with the "patient dumping" : cases where the indigent were terminal or not viable for treatment: a wino is not going to be a candidate for a liver transplant.
No, let's just make this a racial issue. Let's once again ignore all factors except race to make more bad government policy.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
wmw999 2,588
Read what I wrote. It's not what you said. ERs had the responsibility to stabilize before transferring. The definition of "stable" varied from hospital to hospital sometimes, and on the estimated cost of further treatment.
That's business; we tend to get uncomfortable when we mix business with people. Unless, of course, we're the ones losing money.
Wendy P.
That's business; we tend to get uncomfortable when we mix business with people. Unless, of course, we're the ones losing money.
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
Bolas 5
wmw999Read what I wrote. It's not what you said. ERs had the responsibility to stabilize before transferring. The definition of "stable" varied from hospital to hospital sometimes, and on the estimated cost of further treatment.
That's business; we tend to get uncomfortable when we mix business with people. Unless, of course, we're the ones losing money.
Wendy P.
I did read what you wrote. You insinuated that people were dying from being denied care because they were black. No other reason. Just skin color.
As for the value of an individual's life, that's up to the individual. It's ludicrous to propose we offer the same level of treatment and care to the homeless crackhead that has failed or refused rehab as a working person with insurance in relatively good health.
Same goes for the morbidly obese that have failed/refused diet and exercise.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
airdvr 210
billvon>And to think that government policy made it so that hospitals had to treat
>without regard to ability to pay. (EMTALA).
So. 12 year old girl comes in; motor vehicle accident. Parents are unconscious as well. She's going to die without basic care; with it she will almost certainly recover. No one can find ID or medical insurance.
You really OK with a hospital that just lets her die because she cannot demonstrate ability to pay? I'm not.
No one is suggesting that. But if a kid comes in with the sniffles send them to CVS.
Please don't dent the planet.
Destinations by Roxanne
Destinations by Roxanne
GeorgiaDon 380
That is what happens now. However, a doctor still has to examine the patient and determine the issue is not serious, and that exam costs time/money. Many cases are not clear-cut at the outset. That guy with chest pains? Maybe just heartburn, treatable (at least the symptoms) with a cheap antacid from CVS. Maybe it's a heart attack. How do you know without doing tests? That sore throat could be just a common cold, or it could be strep. That headache could be just a headache, or it could be a stroke. ERs have to at least examine the patient, often have some tests done, before a medically sound decision can be made. Most of the cost comes from the exam and tests. What's the alternative? Tell the guy with chest pains to come back when he's dead and it's obvious he was having a heart attack?QuoteBut if a kid comes in with the sniffles send them to CVS.
QuoteBV wrote "So. 12 year old girl comes in; motor vehicle accident. Parents are unconscious as well. She's going to die without basic care; with it she will almost certainly recover. No one can find ID or medical insurance.
You really OK with a hospital that just lets her die because she cannot demonstrate ability to pay? I'm not."
You wrote: "No one is suggesting that."
A few years ago I started a thread to ask this question, in response to Lawrocket's comments about repealing EMTALA, and set up a poll. I was surprised that 5 people voted to refuse treatment to anyone who couldn't provide, in advance, proof of insurance or ability to pay. Those 5 people would be totally on board with refusing treatment to that little girl.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Bolas 5
Yet another who has forgotten ER used to mean Emergency Room.
Severe chest pains, that needs to be checked.
Sore throat, headache, congestion? Either go to a pharmacy, free clinic, or regular doctor.
The key word is Emergency. But thanks to EMTALA, an ER doc is required to check for damn near everything.
Severe chest pains, that needs to be checked.
Sore throat, headache, congestion? Either go to a pharmacy, free clinic, or regular doctor.
The key word is Emergency. But thanks to EMTALA, an ER doc is required to check for damn near everything.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
billvon 3,116
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
>But if a kid comes in with the sniffles send them to CVS.
Fortunately that's now a possibility, and thus we can now change EMTALA to reflect the wider availability of healthcare coverage.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
>But if a kid comes in with the sniffles send them to CVS.
Fortunately that's now a possibility, and thus we can now change EMTALA to reflect the wider availability of healthcare coverage.
Bolas 5
billvon>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
Please cite an example of a public hospital denying triage care in an emergency situation prior to EMTALA.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
kallend 2,148
Bolas***>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
Please cite an example of a public hospital denying triage care in an emergency situation prior to EMTALA.
Why specify "public"? In an emergency what does it matter how the hospital is funded?
Public hospitals aren't free; TAXPAYERS foot the bill.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,148
airdvr***>And to think that government policy made it so that hospitals had to treat
>without regard to ability to pay. (EMTALA).
So. 12 year old girl comes in; motor vehicle accident. Parents are unconscious as well. She's going to die without basic care; with it she will almost certainly recover. No one can find ID or medical insurance.
You really OK with a hospital that just lets her die because she cannot demonstrate ability to pay? I'm not.
No one is suggesting that. But if a kid comes in with the sniffles send them to CVS.
Quite a few serious diseases start with "the sniffles". Some of them are fatal if not treated promptly.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Bolas 5
kallend******>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
Please cite an example of a public hospital denying triage care in an emergency situation prior to EMTALA.
Why specify "public"? In an emergency what does it matter how the hospital is funded?
Public hospitals aren't free; TAXPAYERS foot the bill.
Exactly. And as a taxpayer we should ensure our money is spent wisely.
Just as those that run/fund a private hospital should do.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
GeorgiaDon 380
Whatever you say, Dr. Bolas.QuoteSore throat, headache, congestion? Either go to a pharmacy, free clinic, or regular doctor.
From WebMD:
Stroke Warning Signs
Sometimes symptoms of stroke develop gradually. But if you are having a stroke, you are more likely to have one or more sudden warning signs like these:
Numbness or weakness in your face, arm, or leg, especially on one side
Confusion or trouble understanding other people
Trouble speaking
Trouble seeing with one or both eyes
Trouble walking or staying balanced or coordinated
Dizziness
Severe headache that comes on for no known reason
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
airdvr 210
Funny how so many here who are concerned with the health and well being of people visiting an ER are also so very adamantly pro-choice.
Please don't dent the planet.
Destinations by Roxanne
Destinations by Roxanne
GeorgiaDon 380
I don't see the conflict.airdvrFunny how so many here who are concerned with the health and well being of people visiting an ER are also so very adamantly pro-choice.
On the other hand, it's "funny" how conservatives who claim to have such respect for life would rather that people would wait until they are absolutely certain they are having a heart attack (as opposed to heartburn) or having a stroke (as opposed to a sudden unexplained severe headache) before seeking treatment. Never mind that by that point the patient will be dead or have suffered irreversible damage; better that than "wasting" a single dollar on diagnostics and tests.
Don
_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)
airdvrFunny how so many here who are concerned with the health and well being of people visiting an ER are also so very adamantly pro-choice.
No surprise at all. We care about people, not parasites which merely have the potential to be people.
Bolas 5
I don't see the conflict.GeorgiaDon***Funny how so many here who are concerned with the health and well being of people visiting an ER are also so very adamantly pro-choice.
On the other hand, it's "funny" how conservatives who claim to have such respect for life would rather that people would wait until they are absolutely certain they are having a heart attack (as opposed to heartburn) or having a stroke (as opposed to a sudden unexplained severe headache) before seeking treatment. Never mind that by that point the patient will be dead or have suffered irreversible damage; better that than "wasting" a single dollar on diagnostics and tests.
Don
Every case of heartburn nor every headache is not a sign of heart attack nor stroke. Most people, excluding hypochondriacs, don't seek medical attention for such common symptons. They take something or maybe just rest. However, thanks to EMTALA, if a person comes into the ER o basically get "free" medicine, for a minor condition, they have to be checked.
Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.
Amazon 7
Bolas*********>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
Please cite an example of a public hospital denying triage care in an emergency situation prior to EMTALA.
Why specify "public"? In an emergency what does it matter how the hospital is funded?
Public hospitals aren't free; TAXPAYERS foot the bill.
Exactly. And as a taxpayer we should ensure our money is spent wisely.
Just as those that run/fund a private hospital should do.
Call a Whambulance...... S T A T
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/cbo-cuts-costs-obamacare-billions?cid=sm_facebook
Mission Accomplished
turtlespeed 226
Amazon************>No one is suggesting that.
Good! Unfortunately it used to happen; EMTALA helps prevent that.
Please cite an example of a public hospital denying triage care in an emergency situation prior to EMTALA.
Why specify "public"? In an emergency what does it matter how the hospital is funded?
Public hospitals aren't free; TAXPAYERS foot the bill.
Exactly. And as a taxpayer we should ensure our money is spent wisely.
Just as those that run/fund a private hospital should do.
Call a Whambulance...... S T A T
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/cbo-cuts-costs-obamacare-billions?cid=sm_facebook
Mission Accomplished
You so funnay -
The CBO cannot lower the cost of healthcare.
If you believe they can, other than in speech, you have much MUCH bigger issues.
QuoteThe Congressional Budget Office this week lowered both the short- and long-term costs of Obamacare by billions of dollars.
But then again - When you use your
I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun
Oh, yes. This is awesome. Amazing.
The thought it would cost $41 billion in new spending this year. It's only going to be $35 billion in new spending from tax dollars. They just saved $5 billion. Isn't that great!
From the article: "officials anticipate an overall price tag of $1,383 billion between 2015 and 2024, $104 billion less than previous projections."
Translation: "average new spending from tax dollars will be $138.3 billion per year, which is 400% more than we are spending now. Over the decade, that is $1.383 trillion of new spending from taxes."
This is called "lowering costs." Spending $1.383 trillion over the next decade is called lowering costs.
Here's how government cost cutting works. "4,489 Americans were killed in Iraq. Projections were that over 8,000 Americans would die there. Thank goodness that Bush and Cheney were able to cut costs. They saved over 3,500 lives! They lowered costs."
Correct, Jeanee - "Mission Accomplished."
My wife is hotter than your wife.
The thought it would cost $41 billion in new spending this year. It's only going to be $35 billion in new spending from tax dollars. They just saved $5 billion. Isn't that great!
From the article: "officials anticipate an overall price tag of $1,383 billion between 2015 and 2024, $104 billion less than previous projections."
Translation: "average new spending from tax dollars will be $138.3 billion per year, which is 400% more than we are spending now. Over the decade, that is $1.383 trillion of new spending from taxes."
This is called "lowering costs." Spending $1.383 trillion over the next decade is called lowering costs.
Here's how government cost cutting works. "4,489 Americans were killed in Iraq. Projections were that over 8,000 Americans would die there. Thank goodness that Bush and Cheney were able to cut costs. They saved over 3,500 lives! They lowered costs."
Correct, Jeanee - "Mission Accomplished."
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Most people got treated. Generally only black people (and mostly only earlier) got turned away entirely. People (without insurance or ID) died because of it. We value human life very highly; unfortunately, that value is partly financial -- if you can afford it, you can get transplants, cancer care, better care in general.
Wendy P.
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