shropshire 0 #1 March 7, 2014 Quote"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. "The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. "A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." Rowan Atkinson I think that he got it just about right. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #2 March 7, 2014 QuoteI think that he got it just about right. I sure don't have anything to add.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 53 #3 March 7, 2014 Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen Rowan Atkinson being quoted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #4 March 7, 2014 To criticize both races and religions are, at least in the US, rights. To criticize what a group of people, as a race, has done often makes sense. We might criticize the Japanese for overfishing their waters or the Mongols for their violence. Likewise, to criticize what a religion has done often makes sense. The Crusades, the war between Israel and Palestine, the Muslim conquests, the Catholic pedophilia coverup etc might rightly be criticized. However, to criticize individual members of each for the actions of the whole is ridiculous. Not all Christians are pedophiles, not all Muslims are jihadists, not all Japanese want to wipe out fish/whales. "The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." Agreed there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #5 March 7, 2014 NewGuy2005 Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen Rowan Atkinson being quoted. Oh I bet's it's not .. I quote Black Adder quite a lot... I'm sad that way (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 March 7, 2014 billvonHowever, to criticize individual members of each for the actions of the whole is ridiculous. Not all Christians are pedophiles, not all Muslims are jihadists, not all Japanese want to wipe out fish/whales. you know what? I like every bit of your entire post including what I quoted above. I think we can expand that to political parties, clubs, and other ways people are grouped together. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #7 March 7, 2014 QuoteI think we can expand that to political parties, clubs, and other ways people are grouped together. Can we still make fun of the Dutch? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #8 March 7, 2014 DanGQuoteI think we can expand that to political parties, clubs, and other ways people are grouped together. Can we still make fun of the Dutch? You aint Dutch, you aint much. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #9 March 8, 2014 shropshire"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom Rowan Atkinson And if one is critical towards Jews; are they being critical of a nation or a religion?Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #10 March 8, 2014 BIGUN***"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom Rowan Atkinson And if one is critical towards Jews; are they being critical of a nation or a religion? Interesting .. maybe both, if you consider them as 2 groups with the same name... (Do some people consider them selves Jewish by 'tribe' and yet atheist? ... I don't know) (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,483 #11 March 8, 2014 shropshire******"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom Rowan Atkinson And if one is critical towards Jews; are they being critical of a nation or a religion? Interesting .. maybe both, if you consider them as 2 groups with the same name... (Do some people consider them selves Jewish by 'tribe' and yet atheist? ... I don't know) I don't know either. I just saw the Atkinson quote and it made me think out loud. Since last night, I've been pondering the question and found discussions on both sides. Of particular note is the following article/white paper: http://forward.com/articles/155742/jews-are-a-race-genes-reveal/?p=allNobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #12 March 8, 2014 shropshireQuote"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. "The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. "A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." Rowan Atkinson I think that he got it just about right. There seems to be confusion in the posts that follow your OP between race and nationality. I have noticed that discrepancy often in the SC. The exception noted in a post above is found in discussion of Jews and Israel. It is my understanding they cannot be separated. Jew is a race and a religion and they all identify with Israel. Winsor has made some very good arguments here in the SC regarding Judaism and the belief in God. Suffice to say, we are human, we criticize everything, legal or not. Political correctness is a farce.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #13 March 8, 2014 shropshire *** Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen Rowan Atkinson being quoted. Oh I bet's it's not .. I quote Black Adder quite a lot... I'm sad that way Well, he DID graduate from the world's 2nd best university.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #14 March 8, 2014 kallend ****** Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen Rowan Atkinson being quoted. Oh I bet's it's not .. I quote Black Adder quite a lot... I'm sad that way Well, he DID graduate from the world's 2nd best university. The Zelinsky Institute of Organic Chemistry, or the other one? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 236 #15 March 8, 2014 BIGUN***"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom Rowan Atkinson And if one is critical towards Jews; are they being critical of a nation or a religion? Judaism is a tribal identity; 'Universal Religions' are based on political affiliation. For example, the difference between the Roman and Eastern Orthodox churches, or between Shiite and Sunni Islam, is almost entirely a matter of political power. A case in point is the Old Sod. 'Religion' in Ulster is more a matter of ethnic, and thus political, identity than belief structure. If you're Catholic you are likely the militarily defeated indigenous Irish, Presbyterians are Scots imported to be overseers, and Anglicans are English who are of the Landed Gentry and run the show. The differences in belief structure are largely cosmetic. The specifics of liturgy and various tenets of faith serve to very effectively obscure the fundamental issues, which is necessary for the proliferation of the particular 'ism.' Understanding of 'Universal Religions' entails knowledge of Epidemiology as much as Psychology and Sociology. The more virulent the 'ism,' the more successful is its proliferation. Anyhow the 'Children of Israel' are exactly that - the offspring of Jacob/Israel. The Tribes of Israel are the families of Jacob's 12 sons (female offspring get short shrift, which is ironic, given that while one's lineage is paternal, one's Jewishness is maternal). Criticism of things Jewish is neither national nor religious per se; it is tribal. It may be quite valid - I know Rabbis that can't stand matzos. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #16 March 8, 2014 winsor ********* Wow. That's the first time I've ever seen Rowan Atkinson being quoted. Oh I bet's it's not .. I quote Black Adder quite a lot... I'm sad that way Well, he DID graduate from the world's 2nd best university. The Zelinsky Institute of Organic Chemistry, or the other one? University of Oxford - very similar in most respects.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #17 March 9, 2014 shropshire (Do some people consider them selves Jewish by 'tribe' and yet atheist? ... I don't know) Yes, many do."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #18 March 9, 2014 Maybe I'm missing something... Quote"A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." Other than some religious fanatics themselves, who is doing that?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #19 March 10, 2014 shropshireQuote"To criticise a person for their race is manifestly irrational and ridiculous but to criticise their religion, that is a right. That is a freedom. "The freedom to criticise ideas, any ideas - even if they are sincerely held beliefs - is one of the fundamental freedoms of society. "A law which attempts to say you can criticise and ridicule ideas as long as they are not religious ideas is a very peculiar law indeed." Rowan Atkinson I think that he got it just about right. I think he came close. I support anyone's right to criticize whatever they like. I oppose their desire to regulate something just because it does not fit their way of thinking. I also note that race is only the visual manifestation of what is criticized in most cases. It's more the 'belief' of the negative attributes of a race that are criticized. In that, race is not necessary. There are many 'ethnicities' in the world where my eyes can distinguish no physical differences. Yet, wars are raging based on the perceived negative attributes of one ethnicity or another.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
