Black residents oppose Trader Joe's in Portland!

[DSE 5]

quade

Why do I get the feeling I'm reading about 0.01 of the real story.

Hmmm...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/02/trader_joes_decision_to_pull_o.html[url]

A less sensationalized, more objective version of the story from someone who was at one of the press conferences. Looks like as in many things, a small yet loud minority hosed the majority and TJ's didn't want any part of it.
FWIW, there is a TJ's in the midst of a Buffalo, NY area that is fairly poor; the community seems to feel it's good for them (and I've been driving over the border to buy food there, seeing it first-hand).

[airdvr 210]

DSE

***Why do I get the feeling I'm reading about 0.01 of the real story.

Hmmm...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/02/trader_joes_decision_to_pull_o.html[url]

A less sensationalized, more objective version of the story from someone who was at one of the press conferences. Looks like as in many things, a small yet loud minority hosed the majority and TJ's didn't want any part of it.
FWIW, there is a TJ's in the midst of a Buffalo, NY area that is fairly poor; the community seems to feel it's good for them (and I've been driving over the border to buy food there, seeing it first-hand).

Good article.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

Quote

Doesn't sound like you're concerned for such Communities. Sounds like you think Welfare pays for all of it, & you want it to just go away...

If you're thinking I don't like my tax dollars going to help people who won't help themselves, your answer is a resounding YES.

Quote

My impression of such neighborhoods is, Blacks want black businesses to thrive there. They also only want things to thrive to a certain extent. Otherwise, they'll still be priced out of the area. There's a balance. You've got plenty of neighborhoods you can choose from. Let them have theirs.

What planet do you live on? You're not in business are you? It takes a mix of businesses and I can guarantee you the local business people don't care who owns the business if it helps theirs to be successful.

Quote

You don't honestly believe the white, trendy California chain wanted to give back to the black community, do you??

No, they are in it to make a profit. It would have been a much needed boost for that area but the activists killed it. Beyond stupid. I realize you don't see it that way.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[regulator 0]

This is in response to the OP's article....not anyone in particular.

but basically the gist of the the resentment is trader joe's is

dont bring in any nice stores to our community because were a bunch of fucking bottom dwellers that have no aspirations of becoming more than what we currently are and new and prosperous businesses will make the cost of living go up and were too fucking lazy to get off our asses to make something better of ourselves.

This is the perpetuation of the welfare community. Their lack of self enrichment is sickening.

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Don't you get splinters when you scrape yourself along the bottom of the barrel like that?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[turtlespeed 226]

PiLFy

Doesn't sound like you're concerned for such Communities. Sounds like you think Welfare pays for all of it, & you want it to just go away...

My impression of such neighborhoods is, Blacks want black businesses to thrive there. They also only want things to thrive to a certain extent. Otherwise, they'll still be priced out of the area. There's a balance. You've got plenty of neighborhoods you can choose from. Let them have theirs.

You don't honestly believe the white, trendy California chain wanted to give back to the black community, do you??

It seems that you are deliberately missing the point or you are so obtuse, you can't actually see what is being said.

You can lead a horse to water, but if it takes an IV (Government interference) to hydrate the horse it's a different issue.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

GeorgiaDon

Don't you get splinters when you scrape yourself along the bottom of the barrel like that?

Don

Crudely put, but reasonably accurate.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PiLFy 3]

"If you're thinking I don't like my tax dollars going to help people who won't help themselves, your answer is a resounding YES."

Agreed. BUT, You're assuming that everyone, or even a majority in that community, fits that description.

"What planet do you live on? You're not in business are you? It takes a mix of businesses and I can guarantee you the local business people don't care who owns the business if it helps theirs to be successful."

Same as you, last time I checked. Yes, a lot of the local businesses would appreciate the increased traffic, to a point. Not all of that increased traffic would be interested in their wares, & too much of that disinterested traffic could force the businesses out, as well.

"No, they are in it to make a profit. It would have been a much needed boost for that area but the activists killed it. Beyond stupid. I realize you don't see it that way."

Right. Here, We don't agree. Spot's article shows several other food stores within a few miles. Emotions sometimes overrule logic. TJ's is perceived as being a small specialty store, selling a lot of gourmet fare. That's how they portray themselves. They may or may not also offer many staples at competitive prices. It's irrelevant. They're perceived as a further threat to gentrification. According to that latest article, the Anti's are now in the minority. That didn't used to be the case. I don't blame them for not wanting it. TJ's is hardly the only way forward. I hope they find a solution that works for them.

[DSE 5]

you apparently missed the point in the news article and news broadcasts.
The minority against TJ's has _always_ been the minority. They are merely loudmouths that wanted to flex muscle and when TJ's pulled out they now scream "Oh shit, no! We want you here..."
Can't blame TJ's for not wanting to deal with the drama. They have a business to run, and if the local community isn't 100% happy about it, move on and build where they are wanted.

The lot sat empty for 15 years. If they can't figure it out in 15 years, it's unlikely they're going to figure it out for another 15.
What TJ's sells or doesn't sell isn't the conversation. FWIW, they sell competitively priced, high-quality goods at their stores. And yes, they do give back to the community. Research their employee ratings, research how many minorities they intentionally employ, research who they are.

http://www.traderjoes.com/stores/neighborhood-involvement.asp Donated 260M$ last year)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/glennllopis/2011/09/05/why-trader-joes-stands-out-from-all-the-rest-in-the-grocery-business/ "The Trader Joe's brand is diversity on steriods"

http://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Trader-Joe-s-EI_IE5631.11,23.htm

A terrific asset to any community, a terrific asset to their industry, and loved by their minority employees (the same sort of local employee's they'd be hiring in the reviving Portland area).

I like TJ's enough that I'll drive 125 miles each way to shop.

[lawrocket 3]

kelpdiver

***
Ghetto stores don't sell a whole lot of gourmet fair... Nothing Racist about that. Stop baiting. TJ's is a specialty store.

To repeat: Blacks don't want beef, chicken, vegetables, dairy, beer, booze, chips, fruits, juice, frozen foods, candy?

Even if they choose to ignore the "gourmet" items, half the store are well priced basic goods. It is irrational to prefer the shitty standard of the ghetto stores you refer to.

The worst thing to happen to an activist is positive change. An activist's job is dependent on the status quo. If a TJs moves in, then the complaints about there being a food desert evaporate. Then they must work to find something else to complain about because 20 years of effort goes down the drain.

Quote

It is irrational to prefer the shitty standard of the ghetto stores you refer to.

Unless your livelihood depends on maintaining that shitty standard.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PiLFy 3]

OK Doug,

Fair enough on some of your points. In particular, I wasn't aware of TJ catering to ethnic markets. I've never actually set foot in one, & only drew an impression from their site.

Their giving $260 million to charity amounts to a tax write-off.

The opposition was never the majority? Looks like They've got a very valid reason to be acutely sensitive to gentrification.

"The King neighborhood was already changing. Nearly three-fourths of the community was African-American in 1990, according to U.S. Census figures. By 2010, only a quarter of the area’s residents were African-American."

Oregon should be offering perks through tax breaks, not the land. Local residents have been carrying that land through their property taxes. They've a right to be upset about a $2.4 million Gimme.

"Some decried the Portland Development Commission’s decision to sell the lot to Majestic, owned by billionaire Edward Roski Jr., at a price $2.4 million less than the land's assessed value."

"The loudest complaints came from PAALF, the Portland African American Leadership Forum."

I don't think these show the picture as being so one-sided as you say.

"In an unprecedented move, PDC officials in January acknowledged the urban renewal agency's past role in contributing to gentrification and displacement in historically black neighborhoods. But the PDC stood behind the project and brushed aside PAALF's request to include affordable housing, saying the two-acre lot wasn't the right place for it."

"A month later, the NAACP wrote an editorial on The Huffington Post calling the city’s deal a “case study in gentrification.”

This next one shows the group's own agenda. Looks like they shot themselves on the foot, perhaps. Granted, if they're insisting on some kind of housing project to be built there. It isn't gonna happen. Certainly not after 20 years of refusals from higher Authorities. There are multiple lots available. Perhaps the opposition Leaders need to be more flexible in their demands.

"The activists said they will continue working on a plan to bring African Americans and other low-income people who had been “forcibly removed” back to the inner city. Their group still wants the development commission, the city’s economic-development arm, to build affordable housing on the property."

W/a fuller picture provided by your additional links, perhaps it would've helped more than it hurt the community. The situation wasn't what it first appeared to be to me. Too late for that one, now. Hopefully, they do better at the next opportunity. Going from 3/4s of the community, down to 1/4 will cause strong reactions from the Black community. Emotions may have gotten the better of them in this deal.

On a more personal note. You seriously drive 125 freakin miles to a grocery store??? That's extreme.

[turtlespeed 226]

Quote

Their giving $260 million to charity amounts to a tax write-off.

Right.

I love this.

OK . . . lets have it your way.

Let them not give a dime to charity. . . then the taxes can go to line the politicians pockets, or at least fund the programs that are full of fat and frivolous spending.

THAT makes much more sense.

So, are you mad that they had the money to spend on the poor and charities, or do you just think that a corporation shouldn't decide where and when and how to help people?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

Fair enough on some of your points. In particular, I wasn't aware of TJ catering to ethnic markets. I've never actually set foot in one, & only drew an impression from their site.

Well, that's explains your refusal to respond with any actual arguments. You have no clue what you're talking about, and instead just reinforced the points being made in this thread - that people don't know a good thing when it's handed to them, at least not if it's not black.

We already know, and you reaffirmed, that the status quo sucks. And yet here you and they are, preventing any attempts to move forward. And then next month, let's here the bitching and moaning about the lack of grocery stores and banks

When the Fox fucks go on their little soapboxes about the poor being poor because they're stupid rather than disadvantaged, it's these sort of actions that support it.

(Can anyone tell how offended I am at his late hour admission?)

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

Quote

Their giving $260 million to charity amounts to a tax write-off.

Right.

I love this.

I love the basic misunderstand of deductions...a person or company is nearly always better off keeping the money. The deduction may mean that instead of giving away a dollar, you gave away 65 cents. The only time it may be a true benefit if it keeps you below an income limit threshold, and those are rare.

[PiLFy 3]

"So, are you mad that they had the money to spend on the poor and charities, or do you just think that a corporation shouldn't decide where and when and how to help people?"

Hold on, Turtle. I'm not mad at any of it (?). All large Corporations give to charities to avoid having to pay it in taxes. It benefits the Charities, & I don't oppose it. Saying that it came out of their profits, though? No, that's not true.

[turtlespeed 226]

kelpdiver

***

Quote

Their giving $260 million to charity amounts to a tax write-off.

Right.

I love this.

I love the basic misunderstand of deductions...a person or company is nearly always better off keeping the money. The deduction may mean that instead of giving away a dollar, you gave away 65 cents. The only time it may be a true benefit if it keeps you below an income limit threshold, and those are rare.

Correct. It almost never results in a net gain for donations and deductions.

It is always the giver that gets the raw end of the deal.

But hey, as long as its a corporation that does it, it is evil and must be punished.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[PiLFy 3]

You've seen the books on a lot of multi-bazzillion dollar companies, have you? It's a game they all play. Beats the Hell out of handing it over to a corrupt Govt... Plus, they get good PR from it. It's a win_win situation. Besides, $.35 on the Dollar X $260 MILLION = a nice piece of change.

[JerryBaumchen 1,468]

Hi Douglas,

Here is the editorial in today's OREGONIAN newspaper:

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/debate_over_lot_is_about_more.html

Hopefully, this will clear some things up.

JerryBaumchen

[NWFlyer 2]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Douglas,

Here is the editorial in today's OREGONIAN newspaper:

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/02/debate_over_lot_is_about_more.html

Hopefully, this will clear some things up.

JerryBaumchen

It's like the protests in San Francisco against the "Google buses." The buses (like Trader Joe's seems to be in this situation) are a symbol of larger issues that are pretty damned complex, socially and economically. But that doesn't make good headlines on the right or the left.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

You've seen the books on a lot of multi-bazzillion dollar companies, have you? It's a game they all play. Beats the Hell out of handing it over to a corrupt Govt... Plus, they get good PR from it. It's a win_win situation. Besides, $.35 on the Dollar X $260 MILLION = a nice piece of change.

No, it's a loss of $169M dollars. (.65 x 260M) Basic math.

The games they place to avoid paying taxes are declaring the profits having been made in Ireland and the like. And then pressuring to be allowed to repatriate that money back into the US.

Giving to charity is giving to charity. My company grants me 6 days of volunteer time off each year as part of it's goal to give away 1% of time, profits, and services. The CEO put this policy in when it was basically a startup, long before it became 13,000 people.

[PiLFy 3]

kelpdiver

***You've seen the books on a lot of multi-bazzillion dollar companies, have you? It's a game they all play. Beats the Hell out of handing it over to a corrupt Govt... Plus, they get good PR from it. It's a win_win situation. Besides, $.35 on the Dollar X $260 MILLION = a nice piece of change.

No, it's a loss of $169M dollars. (.65 x 260M) Basic math.

The games they place to avoid paying taxes are declaring the profits having been made in Ireland and the like. And then pressuring to be allowed to repatriate that money back into the US.

Giving to charity is giving to charity. My company grants me 6 days of volunteer time off each year as part of it's goal to give away 1% of time, profits, and services. The CEO put this policy in when it was basically a startup, long before it became 13,000 people.

I don't follow all the games the big boys play w/offshore hidden monies. I'm sure there's a lot of them. You said they give $0.65 on every dollar they'd otherwise have to pay in taxes. That's $91 million SAVED. Basic Math. Dunno how you see that as a loss. Beats the Hell out of throwing away $260 million to the Govt...

[PiLFy 3]

Iago

***You've seen the books on a lot of multi-bazzillion dollar companies, have you? It's a game they all play. Beats the Hell out of handing it over to a corrupt Govt... Plus, they get good PR from it. It's a win_win situation. Besides, $.35 on the Dollar X $260 MILLION = a nice piece of change.

It's a done deal, a moot point, and complete bullshit from the start.

This was a 25% Black community with a couple of race pimps that wanted to make a big deal out of this to get media coverage.

The deal is cratered and its gone. No issue, no media coverage, no more headlines for (insert acronym for whatever they called themselves) to get attention.

It's over so move on with your lives.

Of course, You're entitled to your opinion, but a few of your points contradict the article's facts. Dunno why you replied to a post w/a different subject (?).

[kelpdiver 2]

PiLFy

I don't follow all the games the big boys play w/offshore hidden monies. I'm sure there's a lot of them. You said they give $0.65 on every dollar they'd otherwise have to pay in taxes. That's $91 million SAVED. Basic Math. Dunno how you see that as a loss. Beats the Hell out of throwing away $260 million to the Govt...

Because you're a bit unfamiliar about how this works. Do you file a 1040ez still, or have you done a full 1040 yet?

Company A (or you) has $1000 dollars in earnings this year. This is net, you already cleared your tax obligation. You have two choices:

1) you give this $1000 to charity. Now if you make enough money to itemize, then you can declare this charitable donation on your taxes and reduce your adjusted earnings downward by 1000. In a state like California with a ballpark earning over 100k, your marginal tax rate for state + federal might be 35%. So this deduction cuts your year's tax obligation by $350. So the cost to you is 1000-350 = 650. That's how much this charitable gift cost you. You end up with $350.

2) Or you do not give this money to charity. You end up with the original $1000.

Now 35% is a pretty high marginal rate. If you were extremely rich and made most of your money from dividends and live in a state with no income taxes, then your marginal rate may be under 20%. Corporations also pay lower marginal rates, with 10-20 being more typical. So for a 20% rate, you end up with only $200 for that $1000 gift.

Now a corporation might view that $800 expense as useful PR cost, but it still was an $800 expense.

[airdvr 210]

Iago

*********You've seen the books on a lot of multi-bazzillion dollar companies, have you? It's a game they all play. Beats the Hell out of handing it over to a corrupt Govt... Plus, they get good PR from it. It's a win_win situation. Besides, $.35 on the Dollar X $260 MILLION = a nice piece of change.

It's a done deal, a moot point, and complete bullshit from the start.

This was a 25% Black community with a couple of race pimps that wanted to make a big deal out of this to get media coverage.

The deal is cratered and its gone. No issue, no media coverage, no more headlines for (insert acronym for whatever they called themselves) to get attention.

It's over so move on with your lives.

Of course, You're entitled to your opinion, but a few of your points contradict the article's facts. Dunno why you replied to a post w/a different subject (?).

Because you were last in the thread.

The deal is toast, TJs pulled out, the area is only about 25% Black. There is nothing there that is contradictory.

Move on.

Why do you give a flying fuck whether we discuss this?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

All you need to do is see this in the beginning of the article.... "Council of Conservative Citizens"

If you go to their website... you can find all kinds of news just like this...

I think we get to see these 'Silly negro of the day" posts in SC frequently that lead right back to the C of CC.. aka the "Uptown Klan"