NC ultrasound law thrown out by judge

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

How is abortion not a health care issue?

Wendy P.

Well, I suppose is could be if the fetus is considered a tumor

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[FreefallingCari 0]

Abortion care IS health care. Just as any other procedure performed to a pregnant woman would be considered health care, abortion is as well. It does not matter that an end result is the destruction of the fetus, the woman is still receiving health care services.
There can be any number of services a pregnant woman needs that are potentially harmful, or of absolute harm, to the existence of a pregnancy.
When a woman chooses that she does not wish for care to given for the health or well being of the fetus, we follow her wishes. We also follow the wishes of a woman that refuses to save herself during a dangerous pregnancy.

Skydiver Survivor; Battling Breast Cancer one jump at a time. DX June 19th 2014
I have been jumping since October 5th 2013.
https://pinkribbonskydiver.wordpress.com/

[rushmc 23]

FreefallingCari

Abortion care IS health care. Just as any other procedure performed to a pregnant woman would be considered health care, abortion is as well. It does not matter that an end result is the destruction of the fetus, the woman is still receiving health care services.
There can be any number of services a pregnant woman needs that are potentially harmful, or of absolute harm, to the existence of a pregnancy.
When a woman chooses that she does not wish for care to given for the health or well being of the fetus, we follow her wishes. We also follow the wishes of a woman that refuses to save herself during a dangerous pregnancy.

If you re-read my post you will see I was NOT all inclusive
But
To your point
the procedure is HC realted

The issue is far from it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The point you make infers that abortion is a heath care issue

May not be a heath care issue, but I think most sane people understand it is a health care issue.

Are you thinking maybe it is more logistics, or maybe environmental?

How do you possibly reason that performing abortions doesn't fall under health care?

[rushmc 23]

Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

Ah, so it is only a health care issue if the decision making process conforms to your opinions.

I like how you continue to claim right wingers don't want the government involved in personal decisions.

[rushmc 23]

I am not advoating for anything. But i am pointing out the lie of the argument

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 892]

Well said.

We will be a better place when we all stop trying to force our own views, beliefs, and morals on those we disagree with.

Acceptance.

[billvon 3,111]

>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

No

but you may need to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

billvon

>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

Nope. It's a political issue.

Because the conservatives and the religious types have decided it's their business what a woman does.

It's still a medical procedure.
But the party that wants "Less Government Intrusion" insists on intruding on the medical decision.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,465]

wolfriverjoe

***>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

Nope. It's a political issue.

Because the conservatives and the religious types have decided it's their business what a woman does.

It's still a medical procedure.
But the party that wants "Less Government Intrusion" insists on intruding on the medical decision.

No, there is political, ethical, and religious debate around this particular health care issue.

[Andy9o8 2]

billvon

>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

I think too much emphasis is being devoted by each side re: whether abortion is or is not a health care issue. The debate is being bogged down on definitional semantics, to the detriment of the policy discussion. As a professional advocate, I can think of several persuasive arguments on each side of that sub-debate over definition. But to my view, it doesn't advance the discussion; it just sets the parameters of each side's intransigence.

[billvon 3,111]

>But to my view, it doesn't advance the discussion; it just sets the parameters of
>each side's intransigence.

Fair enough. I guess in the end it doesn't matter too much how it's defined.

On a related note there's an interesting case in Texas. A woman collapsed with a pulmonary clot. By the time she got to the hospital she was brain dead. She's on life support - and is 20 weeks pregnant.

There's a law in Texas that prevents withdrawal of care from a patient who is pregnant, but the family wants it withdrawn. Their argument is that she's dead so she's not a patient. Similar case - both sides are concentrating on the semantics of the argument rather than the issues, which are the presumed wishes of the patient, the wishes of the family and the potential for a live birth.

[rushmc 23]

Andy9o8

***>Having an abortion because the child is unwanted is not a hc issue

So something that is removed from your body because it is unwanted is not a healthcare issue?

You want to re-think that for a sec?

I think too much emphasis is being devoted by each side re: whether abortion is or is not a health care issue. The debate is being bogged down on definitional semantics, to the detriment of the policy discussion. As a professional advocate, I can think of several persuasive arguments on each side of that sub-debate over definition. But to my view, it doesn't advance the discussion; it just sets the parameters of each side's intransigence.

In this case the definition is important
One definition minimizes the value of life
The other does not

BTW
I am pro choice
I just chose life

I do not want the procedure to be blanket illegal
I also do not want the fed gov paying for it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Andy9o8 2]

billvon

>But to my view, it doesn't advance the discussion; it just sets the parameters of
>each side's intransigence.

Fair enough. I guess in the end it doesn't matter too much how it's defined.

On a related note there's an interesting case in Texas. A woman collapsed with a pulmonary clot. By the time she got to the hospital she was brain dead. She's on life support - and is 20 weeks pregnant.

There's a law in Texas that prevents withdrawal of care from a patient who is pregnant, but the family wants it withdrawn. Their argument is that she's dead so she's not a patient. Similar case - both sides are concentrating on the semantics of the argument rather than the issues, which are the presumed wishes of the patient, the wishes of the family and the potential for a live birth.

To state the obvious, semantics plays a leading role in that case because there's a written statute to consider; and Rule #1 of basic statutory construction (interpretation) is: first and foremost, look at the plain language of the statute. So everyone has to examine whether this specific scenario does or does not fall within the scope of the statute; and I really can't imagine how that can be done in that case without resorting to some amount of definitional semantics.

Tragic case, all around.

[normiss 892]

Democratically speaking, you're in the minority.

Thankfully, it IS a healthcare issue that is legal, so...women can do with their bodies as they please.
Same as men.

Nobody stood in front of the facility that clipped me.
No woman protested.
I didn't have to go to the supremes for permission either.

Why do you hate women?

[rushmc 23]

normiss

Democratically speaking, you're in the minority.

Thankfully, it IS a healthcare issue that is legal, so...women can do with their bodies as they please.
Same as men.

Nobody stood in front of the facility that clipped me.
No woman protested.
I didn't have to go to the supremes for permission either.

Why do you hate women?

They type of post that happens when the point is being lost

BTW
Why do you hate babies?



See I can do it too
In order for you to make your argument, you have to stoop to hating women and the do with their bodies as they wish
fine
But life is more important to me

And life in this sense is not a HC issue
That definition is just a cowards way out

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

Democratically speaking, you're in the minority.

What part is in minority?

1 - pro choice
2 - 'personal' position would not be to abort (does not conflict with #1)
3 - doesn't want to pay for someone else's personal decision on the topic


these 3 items pretty much matches about 99% of the people I know. Some outliers are off on #2 (and it is their decision, and most of them admit they'd be lousy parents or it's a bad time in their life for kids, and that's why they'd abort), and only the rabid leftists want someone else to pay for, well, everything.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

And life in this sense is not a HC issue

the procedure is a health care procedure

don't mix up the abortion debate with the health care debate



what we are seeing here is just one more reason why government control of health care is again just a stupid invasion of privacy

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

rehmwa

***And life in this sense is not a HC issue

the procedure is a health care procedure

don't mix up the abortion debate with the health care debate




I am not mixing up anything
I am pointing out the tactic used by pro choicers to be what it is

cowardly

I do agree that the act of abortion is a medical procedure

The issue of abortion is niether hc or medical in nature

what we see here is the desperate attempt of prochoice debaters to seperate the taking of a life that is an abortion and just making it medical and a decision of choice

that should scare the hell out of anyone who is honest about what this is

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

Quote

The issue of abortion is niether hc or medical in nature

Then what is it?

[rushmc 23]

SkyDekker

Quote

The issue of abortion is niether hc or medical in nature

Then what is it?

Life

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,465]

rushmc

***

Quote

The issue of abortion is niether hc or medical in nature

Then what is it?

Life

The issue of abortion is life in nature?

Sorry that sentence doesn't make sense.

Want to try again?

[billvon 3,111]

>I am pointing out the tactic used by pro choicers
>what we see here is the desperate attempt of prochoice

Aren't you a pro choicer?