Cleantech Crash (failure) on 60 Minutes

[brenthutch 444]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cleantech-crash-60-minutes/

"Lesley Stahl: Part of this was supposed to be creating new jobs. Everything I've read there were not many jobs created.

Steven Koonin: That's correct.

Lesley Stahl: So what went wrong there?

Steven Koonin: I didn't say it would create jobs. Other people did."

I seem to remember some folks on this forum trying to warn us about that a few years ago.

[brenthutch 444]

Some more gems:

• The plant was built with $151 million from the stimulus to make batteries for electric cars that people never bought. So the plant went idle and workers were paid tax dollars to sit around and do nothing.
• While other venture capitalists have withdrawn from the energy sector, Khosla is staying in, but with a lot of help from taxpayers. Over the years, the federal government has committed north of a hundred million dollars to his various Cleantech ventures and several states have pitched in hundreds of millions as well. But his critics say he’s in over his head.
• Lesley Stahl: Well, Solyndra went through over half a billion dollars before it failed. Then I'm gonna give you a list of other failures: Abound Energy, Beacon Power, Fisker, V.P.G., Range Fuels, Ener1, A123. ECOtality. I'm exhausted.
• Lesley Stahl: A lot of the companies that you have bought in the Cleantech area got a lot of federal subsidies. I have the list.
Pin Ni: A123 did, yes.
Lesley Stahl: Well, Ener1 did –
Pin Ni: Ener1 did, yeah.
Lesley Stahl: Smith Electric Trucks.
Pin Ni: I would think so, yeah.
Lesley Stahl: There's something that just doesn't feel right about a Chinese company coming in and scooping it all up after the taxpayers put so much money into it.
• Another half billion in loan guarantees went to Fisker, a clean car startup that promised to open a plant in Delaware, but went bankrupt. And in other cases production was ramped up before there was any demand – as with LG Chem in Michigan.

[airdvr 210]

Another fleecing of the taxpayer. I love how they state that Tesla is successful....not without tax breaks and green credits .

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 226]

airdvr

Another fleecing of the taxpayer. I love how they state that Tesla is successful....not without tax breaks and green credits .

Exactly.

If the fed didn't have them on welfare - it wouldn't work.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[brenthutch 444]

I am waiting for the moderators to enlighten us as to why the 60 minutes episode was flawed.

[turtlespeed 226]

brenthutch

I am waiting for the moderators to enlighten us as to why the 60 minutes episode was flawed.

Oh, yeah - I wouldn't hold your breath.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[brenthutch 444]

Truth be told, I do have a heartfelt respect for these quixotic dreamers. I can appreciate the notion that the world should be run by fairy godmothers and powered by unicorn farts. That said I would be doing them a disservice to reinforce their delusion.

[turtlespeed 226]

brenthutch

Truth be told, I do have a heartfelt respect for these quixotic dreamers. I can appreciate the notion that the world should be run by fairy godmothers and powered by unicorn farts. That said I would be doing them a disservice to reinforce their delusion.

Deep down, I love them too, like misguided youths.

I just want to help them see reality as it really is.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rickjump1 0]

brenthutch

Truth be told, I do have a heartfelt respect for these quixotic dreamers. I can appreciate the notion that the world should be run by fairy godmothers and powered by unicorn farts. That said I would be doing them a disservice to reinforce their delusion.

Don't leave out the butterfly poop- powered Walmart trucks. Wonder if they will get a federal grant for that.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[brenthutch 444]

rickjump1

***Truth be told, I do have a heartfelt respect for these quixotic dreamers. I can appreciate the notion that the world should be run by fairy godmothers and powered by unicorn farts. That said I would be doing them a disservice to reinforce their delusion.

Don't leave out the butterfly poop- powered Walmart trucks. Wonder if they will get a federal grant for that.

Not Walmart it would have to be Whole Foods. Walmart is evil you know.

[rickjump1 0]

brenthutch

******Truth be told, I do have a heartfelt respect for these quixotic dreamers. I can appreciate the notion that the world should be run by fairy godmothers and powered by unicorn farts. That said I would be doing them a disservice to reinforce their delusion.

Don't leave out the butterfly poop- powered Walmart trucks. Wonder if they will get a federal grant for that.

Not Walmart it would have to be Whole Foods. Walmart is evil you know. So evil, they are going green....well, it's a good start. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TenWays/story?id=3602643&page=1

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[mirage62 0]

+100

ROTFLOL.

I can't believe they haven't shown up

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[brenthutch 444]

They wont show up. Their cranial rectal inversion (AKA head up their ass) is so overwhelming, to acknowledge it would undermine other items (global warming) on their agenda.

[brenthutch 444]

They must be very busy. I will bump this to give them an opportunity to respond. The nature of a forum is to have a conversation, so all views may be represented. Thus far things appear to be one sided.

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

They must be very busy. I will bump this to give them an opportunity to respond. The nature of a forum is to have a conversation, so all views may be represented. Thus far things appear to be one sided.

Why would we bother to interrupt the circle jerk going on?

I can just imagine the things you guys would be whining about re: the American space program in 1960. Total waste of money, I tell you!

[brenthutch 444]

Given the amount of practice you guys get, one would think you would be better at being wrong.

[kelpdiver 2]

you should count up all the failures at Google, and then their annual profits and revenue per employee numbers. Failing fast is the path to progress. Not standing pat, milking the past.

[brenthutch 444]

Ok I stand corrected. Sorry I did not realize Google got a half a billion in government grants and loan guarantees. I suppose I am misinformed as to the extent of government backstopping granted to Apple and Amazon.

[brenthutch 444]

kelpdiver

Not standing pat, milking the past.

Too busy repeating it.

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

*** Not standing pat, milking the past.

Too busy repeating it.

If we repeated the history of the Apollo Space program, I'd be pretty happy.

I again point you to the example of Google.

[brenthutch 444]

As a example of private enterprise?

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

As a example of private enterprise?

apparently as an example of your inability to follow a discussion.

Google's history of rapid innovation with a fail fast mentality is very similar to the Fed spending that you whine so much about. You have absolutely no idea how progress occurs.

[brenthutch 444]

kelpdiver

***As a example of private enterprise?

apparently as an example of your inability to follow a discussion.

Google's history of rapid innovation with a fail fast mentality is very similar to the Fed spending that you whine so much about. You have absolutely no idea how progress occurs.

I am sorry, I did not know that google received $500 million of tax payer dollars. It was my understanding that Google was funded by private capital.

I love Google, Amazon, Apple, and Facebook. I just didn't realize they were the product of central planning and government funding. I will have to reexamine my notions of "big government".

[kelpdiver 2]

brenthutch

I am sorry, I did not know that google received $500 million of tax payer dollars. It was my understanding that Google was funded by private capital.

I love Google, Amazon, Apple, and Facebook. I just didn't realize they were the product of central planning and government funding. I will have to reexamine my notions of "big government".

No, just your brain.

To help it along, pretend that Google is DC, funding a number of projects that mostly often fail, or don't generate any meaningful revenue. Yet the overall picture is very healthy.

When you can manage that, come back and have an intelligent conversation for a change.

[brenthutch 444]

I might be helpful if you would be able to understand the difference between private risk and government largesse. Venture capital is bailing out of green energy, the government is doubling down. Where do you think the smart money is?