DJL 235 #26 January 6, 2014 It's not a matter of belief, it's an understanding of the scientific method of evaluation. This is something that I learned well as a mechanical engineer and but unfortunately people who do not have a technical or scientific background are left feeling they should believe or not believe the opinions, not proofs, of politicians and entertainment news broadcasters. This leaves them with no true basis with which to make their decision other than conforming to the mob they most desire to appease or associate. The effect, whether they believe or don't believe, results in midguided life decisions, such as driving a Prius or failing to understand and support legislation or practices that will actually thwart global warming and the global pollution that makes fish unsafe to eat and water unsafe to drink."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #27 January 6, 2014 It's called sarcasm. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #28 January 6, 2014 brenthutch It's called sarcasm. Sorry - Missed that.It was late.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #29 January 6, 2014 P.S you're not allowed to call it Global Warming any more ... No one is going to take you seriously unless you use the latest terms Climate Change (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #30 January 6, 2014 turtlespeed *** Quote And since all the predictions have fallen flat on their asses Which ones? The facts are that the global climate has, and is changing. You can listen to Fox Noise and deny that all you want, but you'll eventually have to deal with it. All of them . . . evidently.But - meh - the Earth is so big, we may affect a small bit, but about as much as pissing in Lake Erie, and expecting it to affect the water quality in Detroit. For those of you who don't catch the reference to the Great Lakes go look up DDT poisoning for that region or the Cuyahoga River fire and tell me what happens when too many people metaphorically piss in the water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cuyahoga_River_Fire?rec=1642"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,523 #31 January 6, 2014 DJL ****** Quote And since all the predictions have fallen flat on their asses Which ones? The facts are that the global climate has, and is changing. You can listen to Fox Noise and deny that all you want, but you'll eventually have to deal with it. All of them . . . evidently.But - meh - the Earth is so big, we may affect a small bit, but about as much as pissing in Lake Erie, and expecting it to affect the water quality in Detroit. For those of you who don't catch the reference to the Great Lakes go look up DDT poisoning for that region or the Cuyahoga River fire and tell me what happens when too many people metaphorically piss in the water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/w/Cuyahoga_River_Fire?rec=1642 And for those that hate the EPA, look at what putting in pollution regulations to stop people from "pissing in the water" can do. Admittedly a huge influence was the arrival of the invasive Zebra Mussel, but the lake had come a long, long way before that."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #32 January 6, 2014 brenthutch Let us not forget the record high Antarctic ice, . Misleading. Only the sea ice is at a record. The continental ice is decreasing.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #33 January 6, 2014 kallend*** Let us not forget the record high Antarctic ice, . Misleading. Only the sea ice is at a record. The continental ice is decreasing. Some cats are stuck in 2D.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #34 January 6, 2014 quade****** Let us not forget the record high Antarctic ice, . Misleading. Only the sea ice is at a record. The continental ice is decreasing. Some cats are stuck in 2D. Some cats play the piano. What about a bet. I bet the continental ice is going to increase a bit now.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #35 January 7, 2014 devildogThat would be a nice, logical thing to believe in except for the unfortunate truth that the consensus hasn't produced any viable theories and predictions. If your "science" can't make predictions, it's junk. And since all the predictions have fallen flat on their asses and then some...well, you get the idea :) Incorrect. The current cold spell in the eastern US is a direct consequence of warming of the Arctic and subsequent destabilization of the jet stream. Warming of the Arctic was predicted some time back to cause instability of the jet stream. Usually the jet stream confines the polar vortex to the high Arctic. However, due to Arctic warming the polar vortex has been able to move south leading to the current cold spell. So there's one prediction that is right on the money.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #36 January 7, 2014 turtlespeed********* Let us not forget the record high Antarctic ice, . Misleading. Only the sea ice is at a record. The continental ice is decreasing. Some cats are stuck in 2D. Some cats play the piano. What about a bet. I bet the continental ice is going to increase a bit now. Even in a bear market the Dow sometimes moves upwards temporarily. And in a bull market it sometimes moves down. You are falling into the same mode as brenthutch, ignoring the multidecade long warming trend and jumping on every little fluctuation as if it were significant. www.skepticalscience.com/pics/Skeptics_v_Realists.jpg... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #37 January 7, 2014 kallend************ Let us not forget the record high Antarctic ice, . Misleading. Only the sea ice is at a record. The continental ice is decreasing. Some cats are stuck in 2D. Some cats play the piano. What about a bet. I bet the continental ice is going to increase a bit now. Even in a bear market the Dow sometimes moves upwards temporarily. And in a bull market it sometimes moves down. You are falling into the same mode as brenthutch, ignoring the multidecade long warming trend and jumping on every little fluctuation as if it were significant. www.skepticalscience.com/pics/Skeptics_v_Realists.jpg How long? 100, 200, 2000, 200000? How long ?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #38 January 7, 2014 >How long? It stopped for 40 years from 1940-1980. This, of course, ended about 25 years before the now famous "there's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 1998!" post. And 30 years before the hottest year on record (2010.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #39 January 7, 2014 billvon>How long? It stopped for 40 years from 1940-1980. This, of course, ended about 25 years before the now famous "there's only one problem with global warming - it stopped in 1998!" post. And 30 years before the hottest year on record (2010.) Key words . . . "On Record"I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #40 January 7, 2014 Additional option needed: I don't know, or for that matter, particularly care.cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #41 January 7, 2014 Would you not agree that a trade of ice volume for ice coverage would be a mitigating factor for GW? The climate warms, thick ice melts, thin ice spreads, reflecting more energy, yada, yada, bla bla. (Please don't make me break out a 9th grade science class) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #42 January 7, 2014 >Would you not agree that a trade of ice volume for ice coverage would be a mitigating >factor for GW? It could indeed. In the North, the opposite is happening - ice extent is decreasing, and that's one of the positive feedback mechanisms that's driving warming. As ice flows increase in Antarctica due to warming, you could see larger ice extents on the water, and that might reduce the rate of warming. So far it's been almost exactly balanced - increased ice flows are compensating for melting ice. Will that continue? Hard to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #43 January 7, 2014 Was decreasing. Now it is increasing. http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/16/global-warming-satellite-data-shows-arctic-sea-ice-coverage-up-50-percent/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #44 January 7, 2014 >Was decreasing. Now it is increasing. 20 year trend is that it is decreasing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #45 January 7, 2014 brenthutchWas decreasing. Now it is increasing. http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/16/global-warming-satellite-data-shows-arctic-sea-ice-coverage-up-50-percent/ The Daily Caller? Really???? I take it that you stopped reading after the headline? QuoteHowever, scientists have cautioned that while Arctic sea ice coverage expanded this year, one year is not enough to say the global warming has stopped. “Although the recovery of Arctic sea ice is certainly welcome news, it has to be considered against the backdrop of changes that have occurred over the last few decades,” Andy Shepherd of University College in London told BBC News. “It’s estimated that there were around 20,000 cu km of Arctic sea ice each October in the early 1980s, and so today’s minimum still ranks among the lowest of the past 30 years,” Shepard added."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 444 #46 January 8, 2014 All I said was that Arctic ice was rebounding. A simple truth. Don't we want the ice to stop shrinking? You guys scream bloody murder when the ice extent diminishes yet when it rebounds you are even more shrill. No pleasing you, and that makes me sad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #47 January 8, 2014 brenthutch All I said was that Arctic ice was rebounding. A simple truth. Don't we want the ice to stop shrinking? You guys scream bloody murder when the ice extent diminishes yet when it rebounds you are even more shrill. No pleasing you, and that makes me sad. Not quit a rebound as it is more of a cycle and, at the low end at that, as the end of the article pointed out. Didn't mean to make you sad."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #48 January 8, 2014 billvon>Was decreasing. Now it is increasing. 20 year trend is that it is decreasing. 1000 year trend says it is both.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,119 #49 January 8, 2014 >1000 year trend says it is both. Yep. And it's been hard to see what direction the general trend is in - at least until about 150 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #50 January 8, 2014 freethefly ***All I said was that Arctic ice was rebounding. A simple truth. Don't we want the ice to stop shrinking? You guys scream bloody murder when the ice extent diminishes yet when it rebounds you are even more shrill. No pleasing you, and that makes me sad. Not quit a rebound as it is more of a cycle and, at the low end at that, as the end of the article pointed out. Didn't mean to make you sad. And if it continues to increase, well, that is Global Warming too! You'd have to be an idiot to not see that ice level increasing is due to GW!I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
