Global warming traps scientists in ice

[billvon 3,131]

>THE most important part of your post . . . Because it is still true

Was true in the 1970's. That was 40 years ago. We've learned a lot since.

You could go back to 1800 and read something like "the jury is still out on whether vaccinations work to prevent disease." You'd look pretty silly quoting that today to prove that no one knows whether vaccines work or not.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>THE most important part of your post . . . Because it is still true

Was true in the 1970's. That was 40 years ago. We've learned a lot since.

You could go back to 1800 and read something like "the jury is still out on whether vaccinations work to prevent disease." You'd look pretty silly quoting that today to prove that no one knows whether vaccines work or not.

The arrogance of an opinion thinking we know enough about the climate dynamics today to make close guesses is astounding

And your comparison is lame

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>The arrogance of an opinion thinking we know enough about the climate dynamics
>today to make close guesses is astounding

Are you arrogant enough to think you know that vaccines work? That eating right and exercising keeps you in shape? That GPS satellites really work (and hence relativity is valid)? That we really went to the Moon? How astoundingly arrogant are you, exactly?

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>The arrogance of an opinion thinking we know enough about the climate dynamics
>today to make close guesses is astounding

Are you arrogant enough to think you know that vaccines work?

You have the same level of evidence supporting man caused global warming theory as the examples you give?

really?

Strange world you live in

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>You have the same level of evidence supporting man caused global warming theory as
>the examples you give?

150 years of data, yes. We can say quite accurately, on average, that increased CO2 concentrations correlate with increased global temperatures. We can prove that increased CO2 concentrations cause greater heat retention in a mixed atmosphere. We would expect that to cause colder upper atmosphere temps - and in fact have seen that.

[brenthutch 444]

FYI there is a BIG distinction between correlation and causation. You are conflating causality with coincidence. I know that you know better.

[brenthutch 444]

I'm sorry. I exaggerated. They did not say that we were on the precipice of global cooling. The exact quote was "We're entering a little ice age" My bad.

[billvon 3,131]

>The exact quote was "We're entering a little ice age" My bad.

Can you provide a source for that?

[brenthutch 444]

Take a look at the initial link I provided. Scroll down to see all of the articles.

[billvon 3,131]

>Take a look at the initial link I provided. Scroll down to see all of the articles.

I did. There were a bunch of newspaper articles. I didn't see any NAS publications, or publications from Science or Nature. Just popular press.

If you meant "newspapers published a lot of exaggerated claims" then I agree. (They are doing that today.) However, you said:

"What about multiple stories in the New York Times Chicago Times, et al, citeting the Nationa Academy of Science, NASA,CRU,CIA,? . . . Pretty much all of the "experts" you are putting your faith in today, made the same claimes 40 years ago, except it was global cooling."

The "experts" (the NAS, NASA, the CRU) did not make those claims. Newsweek, the Chicago Times etc. did. I generally ignore them; they are as accurate reporting on science as they are on skydiving incidents.

[davjohns 1]

jakee

Quote

His hair was sticking out like the popular pic of Einstein...

Get a haircut and look like a respected scientist.

Ummm...

Quote

It helps. It just does.

With what? If he's a climatolgist then his primary job is doing science, not appearing on CNN.

Quote

2. Call yourself a meteorologist.

He should lie?

I'm just looking at it from a marketing approach. If you want to sell something, sell it. In the modern world, it's not the truth of the matter, it's how it is presented. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the concept would have fewer detractors if it was presented better.

Meet people where they are. Speak their language. It helps get the message across.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>You have the same level of evidence supporting man caused global warming theory as
>the examples you give?

150 years of data, yes. We can say quite accurately, on average, that increased CO2 concentrations correlate with increased global temperatures. We can prove that increased CO2 concentrations cause greater heat retention in a mixed atmosphere. We would expect that to cause colder upper atmosphere temps - and in fact have seen that.

Again
You equate theorys proven.
Many of you examples are
AWG is not even close
but, as soon as someone can give a theroy, and then present data to prove what has been happening for the last 18 years, you will start down the right path
Untill then.........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>You equate theorys proven.

[vaccine denier mode]

Vaccines aren't proven. No one can prove that the reason you didn't get sick is because of a vaccine. What about the fact that people use antibiotics more? Think that might be what's causing people to survive more diseases? Did you forget about that in all the media hype over vaccines?

And peer reviewed studies have proven that vaccines cause autism. In 1998 Andrew Wakefield published a study in a peer reviewed journal proving that the MMR vaccine, the most common vaccine given to children, causes autism. So much for "the science is settled."

Plus they don't work. From the CDC website, in an article that talks about hepatitis vaccinations: "Non-responders to vaccination who are HBsAg-negative should be considered susceptible to HBV infection and should be counseled regarding precautions to prevent HBV infection." Did you see what they did there? "Get a vaccine, then when it doesn't work, avoid infection." Proof from a government website that vaccines don't work.

Anyway, who makes money off vaccines? DOCTORS. Who claims vaccines work? DOCTORS. Pretty convenient. But the sheeple will never question the medical establishment. Just keep believing everything doctors shove down your throat and you'll be fine. Whatever you do, don't think!

To sum up, vaccines are a dangerous, autism-causing scam that don't keep you from getting sick, and are just a way for doctors to make money, Besides, it's a fact that we don't completely understand medicine. Are you really so arrogant that you think you understand every single thing that happens in the human body?

[/vaccine denier mode]

Sound familiar? And everything in the above is 100% true.

[rushmc 23]

You really want to say that we have as much closure today for AWG theory as we do you for vacines?

Really?

So the scope of the variables are similar to you

Nice to know

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

>You really want to say that we have as much closure today for AWG theory as we do
>you for vacines?

Believe whatever you like. We know that vaccines - IN GENERAL - do far more good than harm. There are exceptions. We know that increasing CO2 - IN GENERAL - increases heat retention on the planet. Again there are exceptions.

However, many people (including parents and AGW deniers) pay more attention to media fearmongering than science.

[rushmc 23]

billvon

>

However, many people (including parents and AGW alarmists) pay more attention to media fearmongering than science.

FIFY

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,131]

Alarmists pay attention to the fearmongering in CNN; deniers pay attention to the fearmongering on FOX.

(If you think that only one of the above is fearmongering, then you have a most excellent set of rose-colored glasses on.)

[rushmc 23]

billvon

Alarmists pay attention to the fearmongering in CNN; deniers pay attention to the fearmongering on FOX.

(If you think that only one of the above is fearmongering, then you have a most excellent set of rose-colored glasses on.)

As soon as the alarmists get real and stop blaming cooling, heating, storms, no storms, dry, wet and everything else on mans activities, get back to me

Otherwise color me a proud and informed denier

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]We can prove that increased CO2 concentrations cause greater heat retention in a mixed atmosphere. We would expect that to cause colder upper atmosphere temps - and in fact have seen that.

[DanG 1]

You understand that science progresses, right?

I could take your post and substitute Newtonian physics (settled science) and general relativity (new science) for ozone depletion and atmosperic CO2 and you'd sound ridiculous.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

You understand that science progresses, right?

I could take your post and substitute Newtonian physics (settled science) and general relativity (new science) for ozone depletion and atmosperic CO2 and you'd sound ridiculous.

Lookee here
another perfect example of the arrogance of the believers


disgusting at best

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

another perfect example of the arrogance of the believers

Arrogance? I think you need to look up the word.

And maybe read some of brenthutch's posts sometime. He's about as arrogant as they get.

- Dan G

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

(If you think that only one of the above is fearmongering, then you have a most excellent set of rose-colored glasses on.)

"There are five stages of denial:

1. There's no such thing as climate change!
2. OK, so maybe there is, but it's minor, and has nothing to do with us.
3. So the climate is changing significantly. It is certainly not caused by humans; it's probably a natural cycle.
4. OK, maybe we had _something_ to do with it, but it might be good in the long run. Warm is good, right?
5. So it's bad news. No one could have possibly predicted it would be, though, so it's not our fault. "

Where's the fearmongering by deniers? You've characterized them for the last decade as head-in-the-sand at best, and there's-nothing-to-fear-it'll-be-good at the worst. How is, "calm down it isn't going to be that bad - we're not even sure it's happening" fearmongering?

Ps - unless you are talking about the great hoax and fraud versus we're all going to die a fiery and watery death.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 3,131]

>Where's the fearmongering by deniers?

Let's take just one topic - wind power.

Your family's safety will be threatened by wind power!

========
We Spent Billions on Wind Power… and All I Got Was a Rolling Blackout
Posted on February 2, 2011
by Anthony Watts
. . .

If Texas had made the same dollar investment in new coal and/or nuclear power plants they would probably be snug and warm tonight. Do we we really want to sacrifice our families’ safety and security along with business productivity during extreme cold for the sake of political correctness?
==========

Next are a list of quotes from FOX, comparing wind turbines to serial killers.

"Wind power is the Ted Bundy of bird-killers."

"We've already known that windmills, as you mentioned, are killing birds. Estimates from 400,000 birds a year to almost a million... They're called bird blenders."

"The dirty secret about 'clean' wind power is that its turbines are giant whirling machetes. The Obama administration . . .wants to give wind-power companies long-term permits to butcher bald eagles on the altar of green energy."

"They're going to kill birds, make noise, cause shadow flicker."

"Turbines are popping up all across America, as the demand for the usage of wind energy is increasing. But at what cost? Residents close to them have reported everything from headaches to vertigo to UFO crashes."

"The impact on their health is devastating - headaches, dizziness, sleep deprivation."

[DanG 1]

The fearmongering is claiming that any attempt to address climate change (or even acknowledge it) is just a LIBERAL attempt at CONTROL over your private life, and will RUIN the ECONOMY!!!!

- Dan G