If kids are first, who is last?

[Croc 0]

What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[shropshire 0]

Growing old is inevitable... growing up is optional.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[BIGUN 1,467]

Croc

What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[NewGuy2005 53]

BIGUN

***What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them.

Exactly, and it works well.

[Andy9o8 2]

Kids are eaten first because they're the most juicy and tender.

You're a croc. I'd have thought you'd know this.

[Croc 0]

"It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them."

The psychology of promoting that any segment of society is special will never groom them to be better in any way; it merely promotes specialness.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[shropshire 0]

BIGUN

***What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them.

careful

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Croc 0]

NewGuy2005

******What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them.

Exactly, and it works well.

Please explain how it works well (or at all)

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Andy9o8 2]

Croc

"It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them."

The psychology of promoting that any segment of society is special will never groom them to be better in any way; it merely promotes specialness.

OK, serious answer. Kids are placed first because evolution of almost all species selects for it.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

***
"It's not meant in the context of spoiling them. It's meant as placing their needs in front of yours. Grooming them to be the next and a better generation. Educating them."

The psychology of promoting that any segment of society is special will never groom them to be better in any way; it merely promotes specialness.

OK, serious answer. Kids are placed first because evolution of almost all species selects for it.

[kelpdiver 2]

Croc

What kind of society is it that puts kids first? Why would anyone ever want to grow up? If kids are first, then everyone is heading in the wrong direction!

Croc- it looks like there is some specific issue/event behind this thread. Rather than couch the debate in generalities, it is probably more useful to just talk about the specifics and then try to move back to the general case.

[Croc 0]

Putting kids first is something entirely new in our (US) society; it was not that way when children were expected to contribute to the welfare of the family. It was not so long ago that kids were a financial asset to a family--more hands to do the work. I think that environment made children want to grow up and become productive members of society. Today when children are discouraged from even getting parttime employment to help with even personal expenses we end up with well educated and unemployable young adults who discover unhappily that the working world pays only for results. This is a tremendous disservice to children brought up this way. They, of course, are not to be blamed.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Croc 0]

Nothing specific; it is just when I see a bumper sticker that reads "Kidz First!" I want to puke.

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Andy9o8 2]

I think your attitude greatly misapprehends what people are trying to say. They're really not saying, or even implying, that kids should be spoiled; nor is spoiling the unintended result. It's more a recognition that a child is vulnerable and should be protected from harm where necessary; that the old "seen and not heard" way of dealing with kids is obsolete; that corporal punishment of children too physically weak to fight back against adults is a last resort and not a presumptively first resort; and that a child's formative years are so special that they are to be cherished and nurtured, and not screwed up.

That's how we raised our kids, and today they're the greatest, most responsible young adults I've ever met.

So: Please explain what philosophy you have followed in raising your own children?

[Croc 0]

***I think your attitude greatly misapprehends what people are trying to say. They're really not saying, or even implying, that kids should be spoiled; nor is spoiling the unintended result. It's more a recognition that a child is vulnerable and should be protected from harm where necessary; that the old "seen and not heard" way of dealing with kids is obsolete; that corporal punishment of children too physically weak to fight back against adults is a last resort and not a presumptively first resort; and that a child's formative years are so special that they are to be cherished and nurtured, and not screwed up.

I certainly agree with everything you have said here, and I have no doubt that you have raised your children to be good adults. Who mentioned corporal punishment? I have always opposed that. And if a child's formative years are to be cherished, why do we need a government organization to do that? And what are we protecting children from? Of course we must protect children from real dangers. What have I said that made you think I was opposed to protecting children? Protecting children backfires when they are "protected" from real responsibilities that allow them to gradually assume the responsibilities of an adult. Perhaps I am completely asleep at the switch, but it seems that the extremely violent behavior we see now among some young people, virtually unknown a generation ago, is , in part, due to the widespread notion that we cannot say "no" to a child. That you have succeeded where many, many parents struggle or fail is beside the point. Our society makes raising children far more difficult than it could be.


I

"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

[Andy9o8 2]

Every generation bitches about how comparatively spoiled the younger generation of kids are, and how overly-permissive the current crop of parents are. It's cliche', and it pre-dates our own lifetimes literally by millenia.

I notice you didn't answer the direct question. That's ok. Threads like this about rotten kids and permissive parents are pretty common in this forum. My own observation is that the vast, vast majority of posters who do the most sanctimonious breast-beating about parenting, and whose observations about parenting I find to be the most full of shit, have never been parents themselves. A couple have, but by far most have not. It's anecdotal, but it's good enough for me.

[jakee 1,584]

Andy9o8

OK, serious answer. Kids are placed first because evolution of almost all species selects for it.

Exactly, kids have to come first. You ever try giving birth to a 30 year old?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[oldwomanc6 60]

I always thought the best gift you could give your children is a strong parental unit coupled with the idea that they will eventually have to live their own life without mama and papa.

It's a far cry from loving your kids, and making them think they are the center of the universe.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[PiLFy 3]

These two come to mind:
[Url]http://otherviews.m.webs.com/site/mobile?dm_path=%2Fgeorgecarlin.htm&fw_sig=722442b7ea44d99832d522d55408512a&fw_sig_is_admin=0&fw_sig_site=36153671&fw_sig_permission_level=0&fw_sig_access_token=16c96cfbc7766491d7053c385f7c83d09d0bf269&fw_sig_url=http://www.freewebs.com/otherviews/&fw_sig_premium=0&fw_sig_session_key=0c262da52b239cc5c39d3306d1377c11423cedff5e2ecefa3c2a61c08ddffc3c-36153671&fw_sig_social=1&fw_sig_permissions=none&fw_sig_api_key=522b0eedffc137c934fc7268582d53a1&fw_sig_time=1388231810922&fw_sig_locale=en-US&fw_sig_tier=0&fb_sig_network=fw#1300[/url]

[B]"Oh, really it wasn't too long ago you were talking about giving children a head start. Head start - left behind, someone's losing fucking ground here..." I miss Georgie .

[Url]http://m.thelocal.se/20131028/51040[/url]

Unbelieveable that this Swedish law was ever passed.

[Arvoitus 1]

George Carlin Kids & Parents

What ever happened to natural selection? Survival of the fittest? The kid who swallows too many marbles doesn't grow up to have kids of his own.

Your rights end where my feelings begin.