How are opinion and qualifications related?

[yoink 321]

Fine.

I'll bite.

If you're interested in my qualifications for this opinion I'll give them to you.

I've been around online communication since some of the first open bulletin boards in some form or other.
I've hosted, led, edited, moderated and significantly contributed to dozens of discussion forums - not just the odd post here or there, but putting YEARS and in some cases DECADES into them.

With that experience I've come to a number of conclusions.



1) Online communication is a learned skill. Some people are naturally better at it than others, just as some people are naturally better at public speaking than others, but it is a skill that should be continuously improved.

2) Knowing that, give people some slack before attacking them. Maybe they're just not good at communicating in that environment. But be ready to answer questions people might have about what you've posted - maybe your intention got lost in the text...

3) Knowing the above make what you say as simple as possible online. Face to face communication has a massive component of intonation and body language that subconsciously contributes to the conversation and all of that is lost in text. So - keep it simple and to the point.

4) Reading and understanding takes more effort for most people than listening, so you can't have an entire conversation in 2 posts. Distill what you're trying to say down to bite-sized pieces.


Chris - you don't have to be an expert to have people listen to you.
It's fine to say 'I've only got 50 jumps but this is what I think and why.' If you've got that information from other sources you can list them... people respect that honesty and it gives a common baseline for a conversation. Everyone's working from the same facts.

But the deliberate way you try to sound more knowledgeable than you actually are in some areas makes every post you make suspect. 'I started skydiving back in the 70's, implying that you've 40 years of experience - we both know that isn't the case.

Start being honest with people and they'll respect you for it. But be aware it'll take a lot of time and effort to win back peoples trust.

[yoink 321]

On a separate note I'll throw in a first hand example of how communication on the internet can go spectacularly wrong.


I was a member of a video game console forum a few years ago that had a significant modding / alteration scene attached to it. Components were being altered and bought and sold regularly. Some people got reasonably well known after doing it for a while and were seen as the 'go-to' guys if people had questions. They were respected as experts.


One day a newer member started doing the same. He'd seen the respect that these people had and wanted that same thing. He started trading and selling, but without the knowledge or experience that some of the others had. A number of trades went bad and instead of getting respect and kudos, he got a bad reputation as someone who promised more than he could deliver, lied about his experience and was unreliable. It was the opposite of what he wanted. He lost any semblance of trust from people who he wanted to respect him.

So he killed himself.


No shit. I'm being entirely honest.


When the site owner ended up talking to his mother it turns out that he was having issues at home and school. The usual stuff - not fitting in. Being picked on a bit. The parents in the middle of a divorce... and we guess he saw the online community as a way to change that. To be respected. When that started blowing up on him too I guess it was more than he could take.

He didn't talk to anyone about the issues he was having. He wasn't honest with anyone about WHY this respect was so important to him so noone offered any help... that's not callous, it was simply lack of knowledge on our part.


That fucked up situation has stuck with me for over 15 years and I remember it every time I make a post.

This is relevant simply because your apparent need to be seen as an expert has direct correlation in my experience. I truly hope that the similarity is coincidental, but if it's not, you don't need to say anything here but please TALK TO SOMEONE.

I'd rather be wrong a thousand times when giving that advice than miss it again.

[ChrisD 0]

Thanks man!

I would say that you and Jim (airtwardo) have just pushed the Quality versus quantity example into the stratosphere.

I feel like I have just been visited by three spirits.

I hope I can live up to your fine example.
C
Thanks again!

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[DaVinci 0]

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Dude, you are free to think what you will, But I have more than one tandem.

According to some reports you have only a B and no instructional ratings at all.

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It really doesn't matter does it?

If you are giving a review of a movie, no. But if you are trying to give skydiving advice, then yes your experience matters.

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No one is interested in the message as much as roasting the victim

Bollocks. Most people are interested in making sure only those with real knowledge and experience give technical advice.

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But what has happened over the last few years is that because of economic pressures and the solution was and continues to be Tandems to bail out underperforming Drop zones, the people that work, if you can call it work, don't have a lot going on in their lives

Do you have a tandem rating (I know the answer). If not, then you might want to not comment on how difficult it can be.

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Making a living by giving tandem rides is all they have and when you confront some of their biases they actually don't understand some of the more complexities of skydiving and they just react

Chap, you do not have ANY ratings. So maybe you should not give skydiving advice and you should not be commenting on "the complexities of skydiving".

[DaVinci 0]

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If you take the time to go view my past posts I have been very careful to only quote the SIM, IRM, and other purportedly experienced people that have served skydiving for many decades.

I read some of your posts. You gave bad advice about recurrent jumping. When that was pointed out with a reference to the actual SIM, you ignored it and continued acting like an expert. It also seems that one of the people you were disagreeing with was actually an instructor and one that was familiar with the student program that was being discussed.

How do you figure a guy without a rating and was shown to be wrong in the SIM knows more than a guy that provided the SIM as proof and is an instructor in the very school being talked about?

[quade 4]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how can anyone know the qualifications of an anonymous user like yourself, "DaVinci"?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DaVinci 0]

quade

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how can anyone know the qualifications of an anonymous user like yourself, "DaVinci"?

Where have I given technical advice here?

[quade 4]

Who said anything about "technical" advice? You certainly do seem to be frequently spouting off as some sort of authority and you're more than just a little bit opinionated. How about we demand to see your qualifications?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DaVinci 0]

quade

Who said anything about "technical" advice? You certainly do seem to be frequently spouting off as some sort of authority and you're more than just a little bit opinionated. How about we demand to see your qualifications?

Playing the player and not the ball I see. Is this your standard MO?

But maybe we should ask to see your qualifications to give 'expert' advice on firearms?

[normiss 855]

He's one of the select few here with PA rights.

[quade 4]

DaVinci

***Who said anything about "technical" advice? You certainly do seem to be frequently spouting off as some sort of authority and you're more than just a little bit opinionated. How about we demand to see your qualifications?

Playing the player and not the ball I see.

I believe that IS the point of this thread. It's precisely what you've done with ChrisD, yet, he's far more qualified than yourself since he at least has the courage to identify who he is rather than hide like a coward behind anonymity.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DaVinci 0]

normiss

He's one of the select few here with PA rights.

I can see that, and he seems to employ it with great vigor.

[DaVinci 0]

quade

******Who said anything about "technical" advice? You certainly do seem to be frequently spouting off as some sort of authority and you're more than just a little bit opinionated. How about we demand to see your qualifications?

Playing the player and not the ball I see.

I believe that IS the point of this thread. It's precisely what you've done with ChrisD, yet, he's far more qualified than yourself since he at least has the courage to identify who he is rather than hide like a coward behind anonymity.

Ah, more personal attacks from you... It seems it is how you operate.

Might want to read this:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1580205;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

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It is important to realize that the rules still apply here as they do anywhere else on Dropzone.com. The primary rules here are:

1. No personal attacks.

[quade 4]

I'm pretty much done with you. I have no tolerance for anonymous trolls in general. I've stated as much and you're nothing more than a trouble maker.

Enjoy your anonymous trolling elsewhere.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver