US breaking the Vienna convention - arrests and strip searches Indian diplomat

[yoink 321]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25426411

Quote

Outraged Indian MPs have spoken out in parliament against the arrest and alleged ill-treatment of one of the country's diplomats in New York.

Upper house opposition leader Arun Jaitley said the arrest was a clear violation of the Vienna convention.

Devyani Khobragade, deputy consul general, was handcuffed upon arrest last week and later strip-searched.

She denies visa fraud and making false statements over allegations that she underpaid her Indian maid.

The maid had complained the diplomat was paying her less than the minimum stipulated wages under US visa requirements

Is it just me or must there be more to this? You DON'T arrest diplomats and treat them like that, particularly not for soft allegations like that.

It'll be interesting to see what international opinion says about the Vienna convention.


In related news, I still think the 'Diplomatic Immunity' defense is bullshit for personal stuff like this.

[mr2mk1g 10]

What the fuck did they strip search her for anyway on a charge of paying someone less than the minimum wage?

Sov's would have gone apeshit if this happened during the cold war. Hell, the US would have.

[Andy9o8 2]

Yeah but isn't it justified based on The Universal Hotness Standard? I'm pretty sure that trumps the Vienna Sausage Convention.

[lawrocket 3]

Federal, state and local law enforcement will do a multi-agency joint SWAT raid, mass arrest, ransack the home and strip search the family of a person selling organic vegetables without a business license or FDA inspections. They'll subject a person to multiple body cavity searches for having a limp.

And you think there must be more to the story?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

from the same story:
The US state department said that Ms Khobragade did not have full diplomatic immunity.

It said under the UN's Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, she is immune from arrest only for crimes committed in connection with her work.

[yoink 321]

lawrocket

Federal, state and local law enforcement will do a multi-agency joint SWAT raid, mass arrest, ransack the home and strip search the family of a person selling organic vegetables without a business license or FDA inspections. They'll subject a person to multiple body cavity searches for having a limp.

And you think there must be more to the story?

When it's a foreign diplomat?

At the very least they're usually treated with kid gloves... so either the officers went WAAAAY too far, in which case I'm sure people will be thrown under the bus of public opinion, or they had other reasons for that level of intimacy.

What, did they think she was hiding all the extra cash from the visa application up there or something?

It just seems out of proportion.

[Bertt 0]

Out of proportion to you maybe, but how often do you think N.Y. cops get to arrest a hot Indian babe ?

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[PiLFy 3]

Diplomatic immunity gets abused egregiously in this country. India wants to have a hissy fit, & endanger our embassy over there? Recall our staff, & throw India out of the H1B program . They can go to Hell...

[yoink 321]

PiLFy

Diplomatic immunity gets abused egregiously in this country. India wants to have a hissy fit, & endanger our embassy over there? Recall our staff, & throw India out of the H1B program . They can go to Hell...

You do know that you aren't doing them a favor with the visa program? You've giving them visas because they bring value TO the US... throwing them out of it doesn't seem like the brightest move.

Can you imagine the shit fit that Putin would be having if his ambassador got the ol' rubber glove treatment? Jesus!

[PiLFy 3]

"You do know that you aren't doing them a favor with the visa program? You've giving them visas because they bring value TO the US... throwing them out of it doesn't seem like the brightest move."

I beg to differ. H1B visas are like lottery tickets in India. They come over here, & steal jobs from Americans. Large Corporations expend tremendous effort to get out of hiring Americans for those supposedly hard to fill jobs. I work in nursing. The quality of H1B nurses is usually substandard, often times badly so. BUT...they WILL work cheaper, & won't demand a raise every year... That's why the monied dirtbags in Washington try to increase the quotas every chance they get.

They do NOT bring value to America. They take it away. They're helping to kill this country. I repeat. They can go to Hell...

I recall a case from several years ago. A Russian diplomat got so drunk, he crashed & flipped his car in heavy traffic. No one else got hurt. Unfortunately, he didn't kill himself. Of course, he claimed his diplomatic immunity, & was expelled from the country. Good Riddance.

[lawrocket 3]

PiLFy

Diplomatic immunity gets abused egregiously in this country. India wants to have a hissy fit, & endanger our embassy over there? Recall our staff, & throw India out of the H1B program . They can go to Hell...

And abused egregiously BY this country. Remember that spy a few years back that capped a couple of Paki counterintelligence agents? The US used the "diplomatic immunity" angle internationally and got the press to forward the lie for a few days to get a damned spook out.

So it's not like the US is an angel with this crap.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[PiLFy 3]

I would NEVER argue that our totally out of control Govt. was peopled by innocent, virtuous angels... Those Assholes are already too much to bear. We don't need the assholes of other countries, too.

[davjohns 1]

She appeared to have been involved in Visa fraud. (Her actions; documented; with signature)

She did not have diplomatic immunity. (India designates which staff have that)

She was handcuffed when arrested and made to change clothes at the jail. (Standard procedure)

India is mad because someone of her caste is not subjected to arrest in India. They expect Americans to treat her the same. In India, someone of the maid's caste is not expected to demand better work conditions. India expects America to put the maid in her place.

And you guys are upset why?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[yoink 321]

davjohns

She appeared to have been involved in Visa fraud. (Her actions; documented; with signature)

She did not have diplomatic immunity. (India designates which staff have that)

She was handcuffed when arrested and made to change clothes at the jail. (Standard procedure)

India is mad because someone of her caste is not subjected to arrest in India. They expect Americans to treat her the same. In India, someone of the maid's caste is not expected to demand better work conditions. India expects America to put the maid in her place.

And you guys are upset why?

The inital reports were that she was arrested for potential visa fraud, and then cavity searched.
Then that she claimed diplomatic immunity against being charged.

The inital report was taken from the BBC. Where did you get this updated info?

If she claimed dimplomatic immunity that without actually being privy to those privileges, then she's an idiot.

If the police arrested and cavity searched a foreign diplomat for visa fraud, they they're idiots.

That's where I'm upset. General stupidity... and just social commentary on info available a the time.

[PiLFy 3]

I'm not upset over this. In fact, I'm rather enjoying it :
[I]"despite her "incessant assertions of immunity."

Now, there's a pleasant mental image .


[I]"She faces a maximum of 15 years in jail if convicted of both counts."

.

[davjohns 1]

yoink

The inital reports were that she was arrested for potential visa fraud, and then cavity searched.
Then that she claimed diplomatic immunity against being charged.

The inital report was taken from the BBC. Where did you get this updated info?

If she claimed dimplomatic immunity that without actually being privy to those privileges, then she's an idiot.

If the police arrested and cavity searched a foreign diplomat for visa fraud, they they're idiots.

That's where I'm upset. General stupidity... and just social commentary on info available a the time.

I don't know that I have any updated info. I saw this on CNN yesterday, ran a quick search of some key words, clicked on the first few articles, and applied skepticism and common sense. (No offense intended)

She was arrested in NY. They are familiar with diplomatic immunity. It would be silly to assume they violated hers. But diplomatic immunity is very limited and complete immunity only applies to the very top diplomats. Her title included something like 'Deputy'. She's probably not immune to everything. If she was, this would have been cleared up really quickly. Common sense.

Visa applications are done in hard copy with original signatures executed in front of a designated US official. Anyone with a US Passport is familiar with this. If she is suspected of Visa fraud, there is a document with her signature on it. Common sense.

One of the stories I read said she is from a family of diplomats. I now know her caste. She brought a servant. I now know that person's caste. The cultural dynamics just flow from there. Common knowledge in my world.

She was arrested. That means she was in-processed at a jail. Her stuff was inventoried and stored. She changed into a jail uniform in front of an officer who was watching for contraband (strip searched). Although I didn't see mention of a cavity search, she might have been asked to open her mouth and move her tongue around while an officer looked for contraband. She may even have been asked to turn, bend, and spread while naked. An officer may have observed for a string leading to contraband hidden in the prisoner's body. Thus, there may have been a 'cavity search'. "In-processed according to procedure like every other prisoner' just doesn't get people to read stories the way 'strip-searched' and 'cavity searched' do.

Knowing her caste and how that caste is treated in India, I'm sure she was upset and offended. Since the arrest and search were conducted by people below her caste, she was probably more offended.

So, you and I could very well have read the exact same article and come away with very different views. My experiences have taught me that what the press reports can be very true from a certain perspective, but still misleading in the extreme. I read the story from that perspective.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

mr2mk1g

What the fuck did they strip search her for anyway on a charge of paying someone less than the minimum wage?

Sov's would have gone apeshit if this happened during the cold war. Hell, the US would have.

Many jails have prisoners change into a distinctive outfit as part of in-processing. An officer observes to insure the prisoner is not hiding contraband. There. A strip search was conducted.

If these were federal charges against a foreign national, it was likely she had to be held pending a hearing to determine bail. While that is pending...into the orange jumpsuit she goes.

I don't know what the charges were, but appear to have involved falsifying a Visa application. One story I read about this situation said the Indian government has taken the husband and child of the servant into custody because she demanded better working conditions. If true, the escalation of the situation might not have started on the US side.

We shall see what facts come to light after all of the speculation and mis-characterization dies away.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

One more thought...

Many Americans likely get their concept of 'Diplomatic Immunity' from Hollywood. I recall a Lethal Weapon movie where everyone with an accent was blasting automatic weapons wildly and the cops were helpless due to 'Diplomatic Immunity'.

Please keep in mind, Hollywood also produces movies with skydiving scenes where the ignore the laws of physics. If they ignore the more obvious laws of physics for an exciting scene, why would they be picky about complex issues of international law?

Google is your friend. I ran another search. It now appears she was processed just like every other prisoner taken to that facility and India has administratively transferred her to a position that enjoys full diplomatic immunity.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

I know, I know -

1 - normal processing of prisoners, gowning, inspection, and incarceration

2 - combined with insight to other cultures (note that informing this crowd of these things will either result in PC pats on the head and congratulations.... or enraged accusations of various "isms" of many types - it really depends on who is feeling outraged and what your political alignment is)

results in a bit of clarity



BUT - I'd rather feel outraged and bitch and moan, so I'm going to ignore your posts. Education is for the weak. And, for that matter, I won't have you bad mouthing the Lethal Weapon series - I'm getting too old for this shit

I like the fact that, in general - if an officer is present for doffing and donning - then it's a horrible 'strip search'. But if an officer isn't present, then the claims would be the prisoner was left 'unattended and at risk of suicide or personal injury'

I could apply the same dilemma to 'cavity search' - do it and be accused of a personal violation. Don't do it and be accused of failing to conduct a proper health physical under the minimum standards of the ACA, as well as putting other prisoners at risk in case she had a bomb, shiv, or AR type gun tucked away.

won't someone please think of the children?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davjohns 1]

I sincerely apologize to anyone offended by my reference to Lethal Weapon. I enjoyed all of them...especially the one where Jet Lee took the Baretta 92 apart with a swipe of his hand. I practiced that one repeatedly and can still do it.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

davjohns

...especially the one where Jet Lee took the Baretta 92 apart with a swipe of his hand

the Jet Li move - I'm really torqued as I wanted to practice that same move - (not for protection, but just because it's neat). But my handgun has a little tiny internal release that needs to be moved, in addition to the rocker bar release. So it can't be done with that handgun.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

Quote

But my handgun has a little tiny internal release that needs to be moved, in addition to the rocker bar release. So it can't be done with that handgun.

Jet Li could do it.

- Dan G

[rehmwa 2]

DanG

Quote

But my handgun has a little tiny internal release that needs to be moved, in addition to the rocker bar release. So it can't be done with that handgun.

Jet Li could do it.

of course you are right - he could actually just flick his wrist and the mystical wind would silently remove the gun powder from all the rounds without me knowing

David Carradine couldn't even conceive of that much skill. No matter how halting he pretends to talk.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Rick 67]

rehmwa

***

Quote

But my handgun has a little tiny internal release that needs to be moved, in addition to the rocker bar release. So it can't be done with that handgun.

Jet Li could do it.

of course you are right - he could actually just flick his wrist and the mystical wind would silently remove the gun powder from all the rounds without me knowing

David Carradine couldn't even conceive of that much skill. No matter how halting he pretends to talk.

hey Grasshopper could catch arrows mid-flight

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[Andy9o8 2]

I agree w/you generally, w/one possible qualification: the LEOs knew - presumably prior to her arrest - that she was part of a diplomatic mission. And as you pointed out, this was in NYC, where's there's some sophistication about that, as well as the potential political sensitivity. So I wonder whether they did the diligence to check into her diplomatic status before they arrested her. Etc., etc....