Unions poised to score one-year reprieve from Obamacare tax

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

but there was a level of risk NOT paying them

there was a big push in California to allow open votes for union matters (or depending on your perspective, not permit secret ballots). It was amazing how union heavies could say with a straight face that this was of benefit to the workers.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

***
but there was a level of risk NOT paying them

there was a big push in California to allow open votes for union matters (or depending on your perspective, not permit secret ballots). It was amazing how union heavies could say with a straight face that this was of benefit to the workers.

Exactly
This is a WAY bigger issue than paying dues
Very very dangerous

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

i think I should be able to work for an employer regardless if they have a union or not and choose NOT to join a union
Nothing more nothing less

But how does that work in execution? The union negotiated the contract and its wages and benefits, along with the policies around layoffs (seniority, typically) and grievances, and organizes any strikes. So do you benefit from all this without paying, or do you negotiate on your own like a 1099 contractor? And if they strike, presumably you do not? We know the problems there.

[rushmc 23]

kelpdiver

***
i think I should be able to work for an employer regardless if they have a union or not and choose NOT to join a union
Nothing more nothing less

But how does that work in execution? The union negotiated the contract and its wages and benefits, along with the policies around layoffs (seniority, typically) and grievances, and organizes any strikes. So do you benefit from all this without paying, or do you negotiate on your own like a 1099 contractor? And if they strike, presumably you do not? We know the problems there.
Yes
these are points to be considered by both sides
My opinion is the union holds people back
It protects the bums (in some cases) who have seniority
It is easy to document cases where more skilled people (mechanical and people skills) end up working for stupid ass holes

The union I work with today as a manager is very good. The leadership knows they need to create value to the company
And they do. The last contract negotiations took one day and was ratified first votes I feel that shows a lot of respect between the two sides
I have taken on other managers who are trying to tweek the contract to their advantage. I ask them why do this? Don't mess with the respect we have

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

It's also dangerous for the business to have too much unilateral power. Particularly when it comes to safety issues, companies will, in fact, skimp to make profits.

Don't think it happens? That's why unions came in the first place. And consider the recent Gulf oil spill (it sure didn't happen because the companies were trying to be as slow and steady as possible), and the high injury rate in some lower-paid traditionally non-union jobs, like chicken processors. Consider the fact that truck drivers are paid by some companies to be fast, not safe. Yeah, safety is nice, but if they're really rewarded for speed, guess what they go for.

Too much power in either direction is bad.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,593]

Quote

The last contract negotiations took one day and was ratified first votes I feel that shows a lot of respect between the two sides
I have taken on other managers who are trying to tweek the contract to their advantage. I ask them why do this? Don't mess with the respect we have

That, folks, is how to work with unions.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Stumpy 284]

I'm of the opinion that most unions were probably started for very noble reasons, but get twisted into something they shouldn't be. They become as bad as the "tyrannical business owners" that they are often set up to combat.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[rushmc 23]

Stumpy

I'm of the opinion that most unions were probably started for very noble reasons, but get twisted into something they shouldn't be. They become as bad as the "tyrannical business owners" that they are often set up to combat.

I agree
In some cases (like where I work) they are taking back some of what they did when they started up. The example where I work is they are taking back the safety program
And it is working!! As the union takes more and more ownership of safety here, more employees are going home the same way they came to work. Healthy!!! They are taking care of each other !
And THIS is a damned good thing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln