Unions poised to score one-year reprieve from Obamacare tax

[freethefly 6]

Iago

From the third article:

Quote

Hussmann is known worldwide for its refrigerated cases used in supermarkets and convenience stores. The Bridgeton plant is the flagship for Hussmann's climate-control unit, which had revenue of $640 million for the quarter ended Sept. 30 and operating revenue of $41 million. That compares to revenue of $652 million and operating revenue of $61 million for the same quarter in 2001.

Reay and other union officials said Hussmann's case production has fallen from 80,000 units a year to 60,000. Dickard declined to comment on the production figures.

The layoffs did not surprise analysts.

"I don't think it's an isolated situation for Ingersoll-Rand. The company is re-evaluating all its businesses after the worst industrial recession in 20 years," said Robert McCarthy, an analyst who follows Ingersoll-Rand for Robert W. Baird & Co., a securities brokerage firm based in Milwaukee.

So production is down 25% and operating revenues are also down 1/3. You got downsized. That sucks. It happened to my father working PM at Xerox, it happened to me when I was working my ass off in Engineering, it's happened to my brother several times working in the IT and tech world.

I have empathy for you. But you landed on your feet OK.

If you're suggesting companies should just keep people employed for the sake of them having a job, I can't really side with that. Blame it on conservatives if it makes you feel better, but that is the modern business world.

Many believed that the slow down in production was a ploy used by IR to justify moving production to Mexico. Prior to IR, there would be cases store in the isles awaiting shipment.

I was only able to do fairly well due to being a Level II NDT inspector. I should had came back to Sperry in 2002 after the layoff. Health kinda got bad. Glad I am a veteran. Would had been screwed without the V.A.

I am not suggesting that companies keep people employed for such the sake. Yet, IR has a history that makes them suspects.

As for the layoff, I am fine with it. The union worked as it should. Seniority has its place on the factory floor.

For those who believe that the union protects the lazy. Never saw that at Hussmann. If you couldn't pull your load, you were quickly fired and got no support from the membership.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Lefty 0]

freethefly

For those who believe that the union protects the lazy. Never saw that at Hussmann. If you couldn't pull your load, you were quickly fired and got no support from the membership.

If only it were like that at UPS.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Andy9o8 2]

lawrocket

[Quote]The tax is imposed for three years, and it’s aimed at bringing in the necessary level of revenue to keep premiums for all insurance holders low.

This is the essential statement of how government works. Only by taxing people can the government keep premiums low. Example: one can pay twenty dollars per day for insurance. Or, one could pay fifteen dollars a day for insurance and ten dollars in taxes that subsidize the insurance.

The latter is more affordable!

You're fabricating utterly arbitrary numbers and passing it off as an illustrative example.

Here, look, I can do it, too:

Example: One could pay $15 a day for insurance and $5 a day in taxes to subsidize the insurance, or one could pay $30 a day for private insurance because employer-based insurance isn't available to you, and another $30 a day paying for a bloated military so Dick Cheney can enrich himself and George W. Bush can show his father that he has a penis; and the citizens of Belgium can have their national health care because U.S. taxpayers are subsidizing their security umbrella. (That's why we have over-educated U.S. soldiers over there who drive their Jeeps around to antagonize the locals. Something's gotta pay for that.)

(Heh, I'm just kidding. Truth is: I didn't fabricate anything.)

[rickjump1 0]

freethefly

*********The question is, why is it that Unions get a pass, what makes them so special that they get treated differently then the rest of us?

Are you saying that people in a union are somehow better than everyone else?

Their pass is in proportion to the amount of money they extorted from the membership to elect President Barack Hussein Obama. He loves the SEIU and Acorn. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/gaynor/100420"President Obama owes his presidency to Rathke's ACORN and its Project Vote affiliate and Stern's SEIU and Rathke is rightly concerned with the next presidential election, because voters have been discovering what the Obama/ACORN/SEIU agenda really involves."

I was hoping Freethefly would answer, but if no one disputes this answer we can pretty much call it correct, can't we?

Been in the swamp all day hunting alligators to shoot (with my camera.) Down here in Sulphur, LA.

I do not believe that union members should be treated any different. All people should be treated equally. After all, is it not what is written in the DOI that it is so? We need to stop giving free passes to one group while ignoring another, if were all ever to be on an even field.

I would not call it completely correct but, give it a partial as unions do play a major roll in elections. That said, it is the final vote that counts. Union members are free to vote whichever way they wish when in the booth. If an election swings in the favor of the unions then the membership did as they vowed to do. They stood together. Can you blame them for looking out for their interest? You left out the part about the union members who disapprove of the candidate their union is using "their dues to support". They have no say in the matter, and you left out the part about union bosses raiding their pension plans for political candidates, nor the government bailouts.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[wmw999 2,593]

Quote

You left out the part about the union members who disapprove of the candidate their union is using "their dues to support". They have no say in the matter, and you left out the part about union bosses raiding their pension plans for political candidates, nor the government bailouts.

In a closed-shop situation, that sucks. In an open-shop situation, well, you can choose to leave the union over the candidate, or you can decide that other union benefits are worth supporting a candidate that's not your favorite.

Right now my taxes are paying the salaries of plenty of candidates I don't support.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Right now my taxes are paying the salaries of plenty of candidates I don't support.

Wendy P.

As did my IBEW dues when I was a memeber

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 900]

You have a choice to pay dues.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

You have a choice to pay dues.

Well, legally in Iowa I did have a choice
But that is only in right to work states

but there was a level of risk NOT paying them

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 900]

I didn't realize we had states that required union employment.

It's a choice.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

I didn't realize we had states that required union employment.

It's a choice.

In some states, if employees of company are union and you are hired, you have to join the union as a condition of employment

In right to work states, it is your choice if you join the union or not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 900]

They force you to take these union jobs?

[rushmc 23]

normiss

They force you to take these union jobs?

Ok, ok
dont take the job and you will not have to pay union dues

take the job and you are forced to fund a union , whether you like said union or not

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 900]

Exactly.
I've never had a union job.
That was my choice.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

Exactly.
I've never had a union job.
That was my choice.

Yes it was

Should someone have to consider this before they apply ?
Or should they have to choice after the oprotunity presents itself to get a certin job?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

Ending up in a job where you have to do something you would rather not is a consequence of the choices you made; whether where to live, what education, or what job you took.

If it is for people who are working minimum-wage jobs, it is for people working industrial jobs.

I've never had a job that was unalloyed pleasure. That's not why they pay me. There were sometimes policies or bosses that I disagreed with; my job was to figure out what the company's goal was, and get that done. And, if possible, change the policy, or outlast/transfer away from the boss.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Ending up in a job where you have to do something you would rather not is a consequence of the choices you made; whether where to live, what education, or what job you took.

If it is for people who are working minimum-wage jobs, it is for people working industrial jobs.

I've never had a job that was unalloyed pleasure. That's not why they pay me. There were sometimes policies or bosses that I disagreed with; my job was to figure out what the company's goal was, and get that done. And, if possible, change the policy, or outlast/transfer away from the boss.

Wendy P.

Froced union membership has nothing to do with a company or its choices except to say where they set up shop
and the Obama admins Labor Relations board tried to stop a company from moving to a right to work state

and there is a dollar driven reason for that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 900]

I thought you just agreed there was no such thing as forced union membership.
You're contradicting yourself again.

[rushmc 23]

normiss

I thought you just agreed there was no such thing as forced union membership.
You're contradicting yourself again.

That is one way of looking this

Not what I think however
Ready Wendy's post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

I think Normiss and I are closer to agreeing than you think. To get a particular job you might have to join a union -- it's up to you whether you take that job, and if you take it, then you can either choose to go along with the union, or to take an active part and try to get it to go in a direction you're more in favor of.

I heard a great quote the other day:

Quote

There are three kinds of people --

those who make things happen

those who let things happen to them

those who sit there and say "did something just happen?"

If you don't like unions, find a better way and make it popular. You won't eradicate them completely, but with enough alternatives that let people feel engaged, the unions can become irrelevant. Part of the union's appeal is that people can feel as though they have some power in the workplace. I've never needed it, but there are people who feel that way.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 3,121]

>Unions don't give a shit about their dues-paying members any moer than a
>drug dealer cares about a junkie.

Drug dealers care very much that the junkie keeps giving them money; politicians care very much that voters keep voting for them. Union officials care about union members for both reasons (money _and_ votes.)

Unions once served a very important purpose in the US - giving employees power to fight the excesses and abuses of large corporations. Those corporations are still here and still have as much power as ever, but employees have gained power as well. The most important power is the power to leave, which almost every employee in the US enjoys. That, IMO, is a much better way to wield power than via a union.

Unions still do some good, but the bad they are doing is rapidly eclipsing their utility to the US workforce as a whole. While they help ensure higher pay and better working conditions, they are also forcing companies out of the US - and that hurts American workers.

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

I think Normiss and I are closer to agreeing than you think. To get a particular job you might have to join a union -- it's up to you whether you take that job, and if you take it, then you can either choose to go along with the union, or to take an active part and try to get it to go in a direction you're more in favor of.

I heard a great quote the other day:

Quote

There are three kinds of people --

those who make things happen

those who let things happen to them

those who sit there and say "did something just happen?"

If you don't like unions, find a better way and make it popular. You won't eradicate them completely, but with enough alternatives that let people feel engaged, the unions can become irrelevant. Part of the union's appeal is that people can feel as though they have some power in the workplace. I've never needed it, but there are people who feel that way.

Wendy P.

Actually, I agree that it is choice one can make

I do not think that it should be however

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

So you think unions should be forbidden?????

People should not be free to associate, and negotiate as a group with an employer?

Most employers in right-to-work states are good enough that a union really doesn't get any traction -- people don't see the benefit as being worth the dues. That's as it should be. But if they want to make a group, pool their money, and exert some power -- don't they have just as much right to do so as people who want to donate massive amounts of money to campaigns, charities, or anything else?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

So you think unions should be forbidden?????

People should not be free to associate, and negotiate as a group with an employer?

Most employers in right-to-work states are good enough that a union really doesn't get any traction -- people don't see the benefit as being worth the dues. That's as it should be. But if they want to make a group, pool their money, and exert some power -- don't they have just as much right to do so as people who want to donate massive amounts of money to campaigns, charities, or anything else?

Wendy P.

i think I should be able to work for an employer regardless if they have a union or not and choose NOT to join a union
Nothing more nothing less

The way it is in some states is because the union was voted in all who work for that company MUST join

The rest is you putting words in my mouth to try and bolster a point we are not debating

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,593]

I misunderstood. I can understand wanting all states to be right-to-work states. It's not that way right now, but, well, not all states are right-to-marry states, either.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

I misunderstood. I can understand wanting all states to be right-to-work states. It's not that way right now, but, well, not all states are right-to-marry states, either.

Wendy P.

Now here are some points we can agree on

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln