GOP 'extremist movement' prompts NC candidate to switch to Democrat

[kallend 2,148]

To repeat: Your ability to tell fact from fiction seems to be declining.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

kallend

To repeat: Your ability to tell fact from fiction seems to be declining.

and since you dont care what a fact is, you make no sense here

As per usual

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mistercwood 287]

rushmc

No one here has been able to show any significant movement on the GOP's part to the right

You only say they look extreme because of how far the left has moved in the last 5 years

http://xkcd.com/1127/large/

A statistical approach, made all pretty and shit. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that looks like a pretty damn big change in the ideological makeup of the GOP over the last 30 years. The Dems in the same period show a slight shift to the left in the Senate, and almost no change in the House.

For the record, from past stuff this guy posts I don't believe he has a particular bias, he just really likes data.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[rushmc 23]

mistercwood

***
No one here has been able to show any significant movement on the GOP's part to the right

You only say they look extreme because of how far the left has moved in the last 5 years

http://xkcd.com/1127/large/

A statistical approach, made all pretty and shit. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that looks like a pretty damn big change in the ideological makeup of the GOP over the last 30 years. The Dems in the same period show a slight shift to the left in the Senate, and almost no change in the House.

For the record, from past stuff this guy posts I don't believe he has a particular bias, he just really likes data.

I have seen this page before
I shows the people in office

But I have been asking for someone to show where the Party has shifted right in it policies

Cant be done cause it has not happened

And maybe it would be hard to show that the Dems have shifted left as they have pushed for some of what is happening today for decades
Difference is now, with Obama in office, they are being much more honest about what they want

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mistercwood 287]

Read the bits over on the right of the diagram that explain what the colours mean and how the data was collated. The diagram shows exactly what you say can't be shown...

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[rushmc 23]

mistercwood

Read the bits over on the right of the diagram that explain what the colours mean and how the data was collated. The diagram shows exactly what you say can't be shown...

Ok
I did
It does not show an ideological shit to the right of the party
It does show what groups are finding favor with voters
But it does not show where a view of any kind has moved

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jclalor 12]

Quote

You were unable to give a position where the Republican party has significantly moved to the right

It all depends on your definition of certain words.

[billvon 3,116]

>I have seen this page before
>I shows the people in office

>But I have been asking for someone to show where the Party has shifted right in it
>policies

Look at the page. It shows the people in office. Look how many are "far right" republicans as compared to "far right" democrats. You will notice there are many more "far rights" than "far lefts."

Now look at the trend over the past 40 years, and see if you really believe that "no one here has been able to show any significant movement on the GOP's part to the right."

[DanG 1]

Quote

But I have been asking for someone to show where the Party has shifted right in it policies

Immigration
Voting rights
Minority rights

Stuff that doesn't affect you

Edited to add:

Environmental issues
Police/4th Amendment powers

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 226]

DanG

Quote

But I have been asking for someone to show where the Party has shifted right in it policies

Immigration
Voting rights
Minority rights

Stuff that doesn't affect you

Edited to add:

Environmental issues
Police/4th Amendment powers

They haven't moved further.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

Quote

They haven't moved further.

So all the people claiming the Republicans were the real heros of the civil rights movement are wrong?

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 226]

DanG

Quote

They haven't moved further.

So all the people claiming the Republicans were the real heros of the civil rights movement are wrong?

It depends on what time line you want to believe.

Do we start back from the Mayflower or do we start after the Bush admin?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

Quote

It depends on what time line you want to believe.

Do we start back from the Mayflower or do we start after the Bush admin?

I was thinking over the last 30-40 years or so. Since Nixon if you wish.

- Dan G

[wmw999 2,588]

Quote

Since Nixon if you wish.

Would that be the same Nixon who helped to bring about the EPA, detente with Red China, OSHA, and who proposed a national health insurance reform (including a mandate)?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

But I have been asking for someone to show where the Party has shifted right in it policies

Immigration
Voting rights
Minority rights

Stuff that doesn't affect you

Edited to add:

Environmental issues
Police/4th Amendment powers

They haven't moved further.

+1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Southern_Man 0]

turtlespeed

Police/4th Amendment powers

They haven't moved further.

I think both parties have moved significantly to the right on this issue in appalling fashion.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[DanG 1]

Quote

They haven't moved further.

I think both parties have moved significantly to the right on this issue in appalling fashion.

The question wasn't, "has the GOP moved to the right relative to the Democrats." It was, "have they moved to the right."

- Dan G

[DanG 1]

Quote

Would that be the same Nixon who helped to bring about the EPA, detente with Red China, OSHA, and who proposed a national health insurance reform (including a mandate)?

Obviously Nixon wasn't really a Republican.

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

Would that be the same Nixon who helped to bring about the EPA, detente with Red China, OSHA, and who proposed a national health insurance reform (including a mandate)?

Obviously Nixon wasn't really a Republican.

These were all moves to the left by Nixon

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DanG 1]

Quote

These were all moves to the left by Nixon

And the moving target of the week award goes to...

So what's your baseline? From what day do you want us to show you that the GOP has been moving rightward?

You realize that you're saying Richard Nixon was to the left of the current GOP, and somehow using this position to show that the GOP hasn't moved to the right?

- Dan G

[rushmc 23]

DanG

Quote

These were all moves to the left by Nixon

And the moving target of the week award goes to...

So what's your baseline? From what day do you want us to show you that the GOP has been moving rightward?

You realize that you're saying Richard Nixon was to the left of the current GOP, and somehow using this position to show that the GOP hasn't moved to the right?

the target isnt moving
you just cant provide an example of where the GOP has moved to the right

The establishment GOP has moved right on imigration and other issues

The conservative republican group has not moved right. It has held its ground
So to the left it appears it has moved right
But in reality, it is just further away

In all honesty however, I do not think the left has really moved left either. They still want the same things they always have. Open abortions, amnesty for illeagals, government controled health care (are examples)

The only difference today is they are more open, honest and agressive about it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

OK, now you're saying it's the conservative Republicans who haven't moved to the right.

Which is it? Or are you saying that the conservative Republicans are the ones who get to decide who's really a Republican?

Would you classify the John Birch Society as "real" Republicans?

Quote

The organization identifies with Christian principles, seeks to limit governmental powers, and opposes wealth redistribution, and economic interventionism. It opposes collectivism, totalitarianism, and communism. It opposes socialism as well, which it asserts is infiltrating US governmental administration.

(from Wikipedia)

For anything as diverse as a population of millions, there isn't going to be a single definition of any association or set of beliefs, because they're based on relative, not absolute, issues, and everyone's center is someone else's relative.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

OK, now you're saying it's the conservative Republicans who haven't moved to the right.

Which is it? Or are you saying that the conservative Republicans are the ones who get to decide who's really a Republican?

Would you classify the John Birch Society as "real" Republicans?

Quote

The organization identifies with Christian principles, seeks to limit governmental powers, and opposes wealth redistribution, and economic interventionism. It opposes collectivism, totalitarianism, and communism. It opposes socialism as well, which it asserts is infiltrating US governmental administration.

(from Wikipedia)

For anything as diverse as a population of millions, there isn't going to be a single definition of any association or set of beliefs, because they're based on relative, not absolute, issues, and everyone's center is someone else's relative.

Wendy P.

The republican party as a whole, has not moved to the right on any topic

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,588]

The Republican Party is not a single monolithic entity. Unless you define "the Republican Party" as its national platform (which is every 4 years, I believe), it's made up of millions of people, each of whom has a viewpoint of what they think it means.

How do you define the Republican Party, that you can say that it hasn't moved to the right? Or will you just keep asserting, and saying "nope" whenever someone says elsewise?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kelpdiver 2]

rushmc

The republican party as a whole, has not moved to the right on any topic

it definitely moved, but it wasn't right or left, but rather into outer space, where allowing the nation to default on its debt is actually a sound solution.

Newt talked a tough line with the Contract with America, yet somehow his party and Clinton got us to a virtually balanced budget. Where the fuck did that GOP go?