The biggest lie of the last 5 years is "If you like your policy, you can keep it".

[rushmc 23]

kallend

But a good enough lie to fool a lot of gullible people into supporting the war.

The gullible who regularly read things like the Daily Kos I expect

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,150]

rushmc

***


But a good enough lie to fool a lot of gullible people into supporting the war.

The gullible who regularly read things like the Daily Kos I expect

Anyone who was taken in by the Bush administration's lies about Iraq counts as gullible, regardless of what source they read. Just look in the mirror.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 897]

Yet it's the same thing ll over again.
Different topics, same lies.

[Andy9o8 2]

Quote

kallend's lie is a lie

That's a lie!

[Andy9o8 2]

normiss

"Your dick is bigger than all your friends"???

No, but that's close.

[kallend 2,150]

normiss

"Your dick is bigger than all your friends"???

Did you miss an apostrophe?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

******


But a good enough lie to fool a lot of gullible people into supporting the war.

The gullible who regularly read things like the Daily Kos I expect

Anyone who was taken in by the Bush administration's lies about Iraq counts as gullible, regardless of what source they read. Just look in the mirror.http://www.examiner.com/article/chemical-weapons-syria-are-those-saddam-s-weapons-of-mass-destruction

The question has popped up several times the past few weeks, "Are those the missing WMD's from the Iraq War?" The question actually has been discussed for several years, and some impressive voices have made the case that Saddam Hussein sent large shipments of weapons to Syria before the war.

According to an article in the Atlantic Wire July 27, 2012, President Obama’s Director of National Security, James Clapper, has been outspoken about the transfer of materials from Iraq.

“
“As director of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, Clapper said in 2003 that satellite images showing a heavy flow of traffic from Iraq to Syria "unquestionably" show that illicit weapons were moved out of Iraq.” ”

According to the Washington Times, Both the United States and Israel have photographs of materials leaving Iraq during this window of time being disputed, around 2004.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kallend 2,150]

rickjump1

According to the Washington Times, Both the United States and Israel have photographs of materials leaving Iraq during this window of time being disputed, around 2004.

2004

"Mission Accomplished" was in May 2003.

Typical nonsense from the Washington Times.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rickjump1 0]

kallend

***

According to the Washington Times, Both the United States and Israel have photographs of materials leaving Iraq during this window of time being disputed, around 2004.

2004

"Mission Accomplished" was in May 2003.

Typical nonsense from the Washington Times. Yeah, and typical liberal reply. Israeli Intelligence has been saying the same thing since day one. I remember reading it in Debka File when it happened.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[kelpdiver 2]

tkhayes

hardly the biggest lie. I think Lance Armstrong has him beat. But whatever floats your boat.

An athlete cheating to beat other cheaters, most recently 9 years ago, hardly beats the "you can keep your existing policy" falsehood.

No, Rush is quite right. I think this will be an extremely successful campaign line for the midterms. Without it, the tea party disaster lead by Cruz threatened to give the House back to the Democrats, but if the healthcare picture doesn't dramatically improve by spring time, I no longer see that happening. It's like they got a Johney Cochrane get out of jail free card.

[rushmc 23]

Now he is lying and saying he did not say the lie


http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/05/obama-denies-you-can-keep-it-videotaped-promises/



He is even driving his leg shivering media away

http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/the-obamacare-speech-he-never-gave/

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/lying-about-lies-why-credibility-matters-to-obama-20131105

Gonna be hard to run and hide from this doosy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[davjohns 1]

Sigh...disappointing. I never agreed with him, but I respected him. Now, I'm losing that. TV said 39% approval rating this morning...

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[tkhayes 348]

I, and many many others could give a shit about the 'lie'. Everything is a 'scandal' from Solyndra to Rev wassissname to the ACA, to .... People are pretty tired of calling wolf.

The larger picture goals will likely be achieved. Most people will have insurance - that will be success. No one will have pre-existing conditions stopping them from getting a plan. More poor people will be on a plan, or Medicare, instead of walking into ER's and driving up your (and my) rates). Hospitals will have to deliver better care for less money or get penalized. Elderly people will be able to see a doctor 'just because' for preventative help instead of just going when they are sick. I dunno - duh, sounds like success. If you are going to call it failure because 2-3% might end up with a rate increase, then that is your problem.

Just like Bush lied about the war in Iraq, if larger clearer goals would have been achieved, then I doubt anyone would have cared. But they were not.

And the Democrats will probably move into a majority next election cycle. Look at yesterdays results. People have had it with the Tea Party ideals, and the Republican party is still hijacked by them. I really doubt the right wing can fix themselves before 2016.

[kelpdiver 2]

tkhayes

I, and many many others could give a shit about the 'lie'. Everything is a 'scandal' from Solyndra to Rev wassissname to the ACA, to .... People are pretty tired of calling wolf.

The larger picture goals will likely be achieved. Most people will have insurance - that will be success. No one will have pre-existing conditions stopping them from getting a plan. More poor people will be on a plan, or Medicare, instead of walking into ER's and driving up your (and my) rates). Hospitals will have to deliver better care for less money or get penalized. Elderly people will be able to see a doctor 'just because' for preventative help instead of just going when they are sick. I dunno - duh, sounds like success. If you are going to call it failure because 2-3% might end up with a rate increase, then that is your problem.

2-3%? Come on - every one gets a rate increase nearly every year already. Mine will cost me an extra $480 this next year, and that's with the company paying most of the freight.

This is appearing to be another one of the lies. And it's really coming from the same problem - new requirements for every plan raise the costs, and invalidate existing ones. Is it good to make people pay more for better coverage they might not ever want? I wonder what happens when the 'caddilac tax' comes along that would force plans to offer less coverage. You can only stretch the deductible requirement so far.

You don't think it was a significant 'lie?' It was only a key cornerstone in his campaign to sell the overhaul, to assuage the fears of the majority who have suitable insurance and worry that they will lose it to solve the problem of this minority. And it seems to be decided false...to the point where they're trying to deny ever making the promise.

And no, it's not "my problem." You, in typical fashion, have a hard time separating personal belief from an impartial assessment. If enough people lose their plan, or have to pay substantially more, then this will be reflected in the next election. Your opinion of how wrong they are doesn't count for shit, TK. And as I wrote, the GOP have a real 'scandal' to work with this time. If nothing changes substantively from now, it will play very well. On the other side, people who couldn't get insurance at all, and those having these new costs subsidized may be very happy about it, but I suspect that most of these were already votes on the D side. So the uncertainty at this point in time is how quickly they can smooth out all the operational issues. Because as stupid as the shut down was, that had marginal effects, or less visible second order effects on the majority of Americans. But they pay for health care every month. And they'll pay it in November, 2014, right before they vote, whereas the shutdown would have been 13 months ago (unless we repeat in January)

---
Fun sidenote - as I was wandering around NYC this past Saturday, looking to see if I could catch a cheap show, I went past Fox News (hilarious outer wall, with giant posters of their people and the scrolling marque). There was a moderately sized line of people waiting outside. "Who is it?" "Huckabee." Figuring it was a good a lark as any, we waited and managed to get in. Incredibly white and old crowd (like my home owners association meetings), and exactly what you might think for Fox audiences.

Heard one guy in line say - 'the problem with the health care site is that programmers can only think in 1s and 0s. But customers are more complicated.' Perhaps one of the most clueless notions I ever heard. And unfortunately, the entire hour show was focused on health care. I would have liked to see other slinging. But so be it. Got to meet him backstage and talk about Sunday's marathon (he ran it a 7 years earlier).

[tkhayes 348]

Quote

every one gets a rate increase nearly every year already. Mine will cost me an extra $480 this next year, and that's with the company paying most of the freight.

And that has nothing to do with the ACA, it implementation or otherwise. It has to do with the high cost of healthcare. No one said it was cheap.

That's righ - we raised the standards and we opened mor markets for exchanges (if states chose to).

he popular number of people having polices cancelled is 15,00,000 - you said it yourself. that us 5% of the population. Many will find better policies for less or the same money, which means I came up with a 2-3% of people really affected as an educated guess. Ask me in a year or two.

Just like Medicare, everyone was afraid of it, lobbied against it - it was the 'end of times'. the ultimate loss of freedoms, communism, un-American. Now we cannot and will not do without it.

So if my opinion is not worth shit to you - well, i will not be losing a bunch of sleep over that. Take a close look at the elections yesterday and let me know how you think 2016 is going to turn out.

The country is going to single payer health care. It is going to happen. It will happen in the next 10-20 years. This is a step in that direction and I could give a shit how it turns out for you really, but I do give a shit how it turns out for the country.

And as far as how it is going to turn out, you have no more idea that I do - so your opinions are not worth shit either. They are just opinions, not an 'impartial assessment', or certainly one that has not got enough evidence to be impartial, given that the ACA is hardly implemented yet.

Huckabee? Yep, that's where I go for educated opinions on things.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfSN4fnXwKM

[kelpdiver 2]

tkhayes

Quote

every one gets a rate increase nearly every year already. Mine will cost me an extra $480 this next year, and that's with the company paying most of the freight.

And that has nothing to do with the ACA, it implementation or otherwise. It has to do with the high cost of healthcare. No one said it was cheap.

Is that an excuse for it to get even more expensive? It's impossible for people to discern if the increases as related to ACA or not. It's less difficult when the policy gets cancelled entirely.

Quote

he popular number of people having polices cancelled is 15,00,000 - you said it yourself. that us 5% of the population. Many will find better policies for less or the same money, which means I came up with a 2-3% of people really affected as an educated guess. Ask me in a year or two.

Sounds more like making shit up. Why would I ask you in two years when the election is in one? And we'll know much sooner than that how many people lose their policies and have to pay more, so we won't have to make up numbers.

Quote

Just like Medicare, everyone was afraid of it, lobbied against it - it was the 'end of times'. the ultimate loss of freedoms, communism, un-American. Now we cannot and will not do without it.

given the funding deficit measuring tens of trillions, you shouldn't really be pointing to it as a shining example.

Quote

So if my opinion is not worth shit to you - well, i will not be losing a bunch of sleep over that. Take a close look at the elections yesterday and let me know how you think 2016 is going to turn out.

Who cares about 2016. We're talking about 2014. And the results from a odd year election in a small number of locales right after the shutdown doesn't predict that well.

Quote

And as far as how it is going to turn out, you have no more idea that I do - so your opinions are not worth shit either. They are just opinions, not an 'impartial assessment', or certainly one that has not got enough evidence to be impartial, given that the ACA is hardly implemented yet.

Huckabee? Yep, that's where I go for educated opinions on things.....

Yet another time something goes well over your head, due to your inability to objectively view anything. That's why your opinions hold low value.

[tkhayes 348]

1. you already admitted it gets morte expensive every year. moot point then if it gets expensive THIS year. What you are saying is that the bill is a failure because YOUR bill did nto go down.

2. no more making shit up than you are. The 15,000,000 number comes from a REPUBLICAN paper, at mathematically that is 5% of the population. i am not making that up. 15/311 = 0.048 - approx 5%

3. we can fix the deficit in many ways. deciding that we want Medicare, and then setting a tax base to pay for it is one of the ways of doing that. I have no problem with that system.

4. I don't care about 2016 - yet.

5. again YOUR opinions of are equally low value. You cannot comment objectively on the outcome of something until it has actually 'come out'. The ACA is in its early stages of implementation.