Damn you Green Energy!

[jgoose71 0]

The Colorado based solar panel firm Abound took stimulus money, went bankrupt, then left a toxic mess for the tax payer to clean up.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/31/bankrupt-solar-panel-firm-took-stimulus-money-left-toxic-mess-says-report/

Quote

“As lawyers, regulators, bankruptcy officials and the landlord spar over the case, the building lies in disrepair, too contaminated to lease,” the report stated.

The owner of the property tried to force a bankruptcy trustee to clean the facility, but the report said it would "place humans at imminent and significant health risk." One of the hazards is the presence of cadmium, a cancer-causing agent that is used to produce the film on the solar panels, the report said.

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"If a coal, oil or gas company pulled something like that the EPA would send out SWAT teams and the U.S. Marshals to track down the offenders, bankrupt or not."

So can I now ask Liberals if they would like a cup of "Solar Panel Water" to drink?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[brenthutch 444]

You miss the salient point. It does not matter what the outcome is, it just depends on the feelings of the ones who promogate these policies. If you just want to make money, you are a evil capitalist, if, on the other hand, you want to "save the planet" you will be absolved of any sin.

[Bignugget 0]

Lol, SWAT teams.

For sure.

Its just because its a solar company that the SWAT teams and US marshals aren't tracking "offenders" (I assume the owner?) down....dispatched by the EPA.

hahaha.

It probably is fucked up what they did, but you lose all credibility on your "report" when you spout nonsense like that.

PLENTY of corporations have done TERRIBLE shit to the environment/left toxic shit around and VERY VERY VERY rarely ever see ANY sort of criminal consequence.....nothing to do with the type of energy the company was pursuing, or the federal loan guarantees they had securing some of their financing. Everything to do with the fact that the EPA has 0 authority to dispatch US Marshals and SWAT teams.

[Bignugget 0]

A less absurd report.

http://www.bcbr.com/article/20131011/EDITION/131009918

$3.7 million to cleanup. It looks like the solar company is suing their insurance company for refusing to pay for the clean up, after they went bankrupt......sounds convoluted and fucked.

Hopefully it gets done right.

What I wonder is, you guys who argue that the EPA (in this case the "Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment") is nothing but a job killer, business hater.....

If they weren't involved in the process would that be a good thing?

[jgoose71 0]

Bignugget

Lol, SWAT teams.

For sure.

Its just because its a solar company that the SWAT teams and US marshals aren't tracking "offenders" (I assume the owner?) down....dispatched by the EPA.

hahaha.

It probably is fucked up what they did, but you lose all credibility on your "report" when you spout nonsense like that.

PLENTY of corporations have done TERRIBLE shit to the environment/left toxic shit around and VERY VERY VERY rarely ever see ANY sort of criminal consequence.....nothing to do with the type of energy the company was pursuing, or the federal loan guarantees they had securing some of their financing. Everything to do with the fact that the EPA has 0 authority to dispatch US Marshals and SWAT teams.

Well, they do have the authority to drum up this kind of response though:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/11/epa-facing-fire-armed-raid-alaska-mine/?page=all

Since the collapsed solar panel company is allowing cancer causing agents to slowly seep into the Colorado water tables, don't you think this kind of response is warranted?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Bignugget 0]

What sort of response?

The place is shut down.....who are they going to raid?

The company is in an insurance dispute over who is going to pay to clean it up.

What solution are you looking for?

I am a supporter of the EPA, I think making sure things like this actually end up clean and safe and fixed is a great job for government.

Right now it seems like the clean up issues are state issues, which should make a state's rights kinda guy happy. The fed is staying out of it.

So yes, I support environmental agencies state and federal, I think this should be cleaned up, and I think it is being addressed pretty well.

Hell, just down the street from me is a superfund site contaminated from the Manhattan project. A few miles down the road is another one contaminated with TCE that affects the water supply...

I wish the EPA did a hell of a lot more than they do, but I hate job creators.



Side note: Isn't this place in the same town as the lady who hates Mile Hi Skydiving?

[jgoose71 0]

How about the owners of the plant? Do you think it's right that they come in, make a mess, then walk away?

While the court battle rages on, more carcinogens get to seep into the ground. If it was big oil, coal, or any other "dirty industry" they would be going after the company CEO's assets that were protected by filing bankruptcy "for the greater good".

And filing for bankruptcy doesn't get you off the hook for fines levied by the EPA to clean up messes. They need to go in, guns blazing, knock this dirt bag to the ground, take his house and sell it to pay for the mess he made...

...for the children...

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Bignugget 0]

jgoose71

How about the owners of the plant? Do you think it's right that they come in, make a mess, then walk away?

While the court battle rages on, more carcinogens get to seep into the ground. If it was big oil, coal, or any other "dirty industry" they would be going after the company CEO's assets that were protected by filing bankruptcy "for the greater good".

And filing for bankruptcy doesn't get you off the hook for fines levied by the EPA to clean up messes. They need to go in, guns blazing, knock this dirt bag to the ground, take his house and sell it to pay for the mess he made...

...for the children...

Do you have any examples of this happening in other energy related pollution cases? Or any cases of non-energy related industrial pollution where they did as you are suggesting?

I sure don't remember any.

I don't think its right that they came in, went bankrupt, and left a bunch of dangerous shit around.

But it the problem is certainly not isolated to solar panel makers, or this company.

How many superfund sites are in your state?

Out of the dozens in my state I seriously doubt you can find one case where they put the owner of the company in jail, and seized his house.

The company has no assets, that is why they declared bankruptcy....

The CEO's assets are not accessible to creditors, or to pay for any clean-up. No more than Jamie Dimon's assets are available to pay the JPM fine were JPM to go bankrupt....


If you are calling for a change in the laws so that corporation officers are held (directly) financially responsible for the actions of the corporation.....go for it....not sure how that will resonate with your GOP buddies...

Personally I would love to see the JPM fine split among the officers.

[jgoose71 0]

I said "...for the children..."

That's supposed to be the end all be all argument. Time to throw laws and common sense out the window and go for full knee-jerk reactions.

If you don't, it means you hate children.

Why do you hate children?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Bignugget 0]

A lot of reasons.

You don't want a mini-bignugget running around, trust me.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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How about the owners of the plant? Do you think it's right that they come in, make a mess, then walk away?

Who should stop it? The government?

Why do you Republicans always want bigger government?

(Would also love to see how a Libertarian would deal with this, without any government involvement)

[billvon 3,119]

> If you just want to make money, you are a evil capitalist, if, on the other hand,
>you want to "save the planet" you will be absolved of any sin.

What about the people "saving the planet" who make lots of money? Or are such people impossible?

[tkhayes 348]

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How about the owners of the plant? Do you think it's right that they come in, make a mess, then walk away?

Yes they do. It's called the 'corporation', and something the right wing business types like to promote as solid foundations of America. But a large part of the reason corporations were created in the first place was so the owners COULD in fact absolve themselves of personal responsibility.

and so in that model of American Capitalism, 'someone else' does get stuck with the clean-up. It is working exactly as it was designed to work. [sarcasm]

[kallend 2,150]

tkhayes

Quote

How about the owners of the plant? Do you think it's right that they come in, make a mess, then walk away?

Yes they do. It's called the 'corporation', and something the right wing business types like to promote as solid foundations of America. But a large part of the reason corporations were created in the first place was so the owners COULD in fact absolve themselves of personal responsibility.

and so in that model of American Capitalism, 'someone else' does get stuck with the clean-up. It is working exactly as it was designed to work. [sarcasm]

Superfund was originally funded by a tax on the chemical and petroleum industry, now expired thanks to industry lobbying. General tax revenues go to Superfund now. In other words, you and I pay to clean up the messes left by corporations.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.