The Rise of the Right in France

[lawrocket 3]

[Url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/local-election-victory-for-marine-le-pens-national-front-raises-fears-on-both-left-and-right-8879861.html[/url]

This has been brewing in France for a while. I understand that the French are more fed up with the status quo than Americans are. They just don't see much of a difference between the Socialist party and the United for popular Movement (UMP) party (the UMP is considered center-right in France, which would basically put it by the Democrats here in the US).

Voters are leaving both of them and going to the Front National party (which has a pretty seedy history, by the way), and to such an extent that both major parties are unifying to defeat the FN party. Polls are showing 25% oof voters may vote for FN. Needless to say, the two major parties are in fit mode and just can't understand why anybody would vote for a far right party.

This is something that seems to be going on through Europe. Take a look in most of Europe for unemployment data. It's rough in many places (Germany is doing okay). Most of Europe is just not recovering much. People are getting mad. The fixes haven't worked. And in such times, outliers become far more acceptable because they are the ones who offer different ideas. Anything is better than this.

I can easily see a circumstance where France elects a large number of third-party candidates. I've been awaiting a party realigmnent here in the US for a couple of decades now - seeing little difference between the Democrats and GOP.

From a personal political perspective, I also am seeing this with a bit of a smirk. There are so many who argue that we would like it better the way they do things in Europe. I'm seeing plenty of indicators that people in Europe don't like the way it's done in Europe, and they don't like each other, either. Again, Germany excepted. Germany's the only country in the EU that has decreased unemployment since 2007.

I'd certainly like some perspective from my friends across The Pond. And perhaps see some discussion as to the validity of thrid party candidates here in the US.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[RonD1120 62]

Wasn't the Republican Party formed as a third party alternative to the Whig Party and the Democrat Party.

It seems a good time for the Libertarian Party to grow in strength since it is difficult to separate the Republicans from the Democrats.

Libertarians vs. Progressive Liberals

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[wmw999 2,600]

In a libertarian vs. progressive liberals world, who would the social conservatives associate with? True libertarians don't mess with social conservatism as far as I understand.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[DaVinci 0]

wmw999

In a libertarian vs. progressive liberals world, who would the social conservatives associate with? True libertarians don't mess with social conservatism as far as I understand.

Wendy P.

Maybe they will die out? But I can't see a social conservative joining a progressive liberal party.

[wmw999 2,600]

Getting back to France, does there appear to be a separation between the libertarian and the social conservatives, who want the country to return to a pre-immigration status (i.e. fewer Africans and Muslims).

France, particularly, with its history of enforced linguistic purity (what it looks like to me), seems as though it could be home to some serious jingoism, conflated with fiscal conservatism.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Channman 2]

I would just like to say, "Conservatism works every time it's tried".

[wmw999 2,600]

Social or financial? Look at how well it did for the US in the 1920's, when there was a Republican president and majority in both houses for much of the decade. Yeah, the 20's were good, but they led to the 30's.

It's kind of like saying that it's great to be able to eat all you want, ignoring the fact that you're getting fat. And then having a heart attack.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[lawrocket 3]

wmw999

In a libertarian vs. progressive liberals world, who would the social conservatives associate with? True libertarians don't mess with social conservatism as far as I understand.

Wendy P.

A libertarian can't really fit in with either party in a fiscal sense, since the GOP has demonstrated it is more than willing to increase the size and scope of government. Just like the Democrats, who are proud of it. Libertarians won't accept the police state crap that the GOP and Democrats agree are important.

I also cannot see myself in with the GOP on social issues, as I'm all for gay marriage. But the Democrats also want to control what's going on in my bedroom and want my medical and psych records so they can see what's going on. Not to mention access to my closet if I happen to have a gun in there.

30 years ago, there might have been a choice between GOP and Democrat if there was a realignment. But I went Libertarian in 1993 before the whole 1994 election cycle.

Right now, the GOP and Democrats agre far too much on the size and scope of government. Republicans want to be in our bedrooms. Democrats want to be in our medicine cabinets. Neither are in the business of leaving us alone.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

Channman

I would just like to say, "Conservatism works every time it's tried".

That's not even vaguely true and especially when you look at the entire history of France and what the words "conservative" and "liberal" actually mean.

I mean, when was the last time France had a king?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 3]

Quote

when was the last time France had a king?

Well, de Gaulle came pretty close; but yeah.

[JerryBaumchen 1,471]

Hi Andy,

Quote

de Gaulle came pretty close

Not even close. I believe the words he used were, "Mon Dieu."



JerryBaumchen

[Andy9o8 3]

Oh, that. I think He was looking in His mirror at the time.

[rushmc 23]

lawrocket

***In a libertarian vs. progressive liberals world, who would the social conservatives associate with? True libertarians don't mess with social conservatism as far as I understand.

Wendy P.

A libertarian can't really fit in with either party in a fiscal sense, since the GOP has demonstrated it is more than willing to increase the size and scope of government. Just like the Democrats, who are proud of it. Libertarians won't accept the police state crap that the GOP and Democrats agree are important.

I also cannot see myself in with the GOP on social issues, as I'm all for gay marriage. But the Democrats also want to control what's going on in my bedroom and want my medical and psych records so they can see what's going on. Not to mention access to my closet if I happen to have a gun in there.

30 years ago, there might have been a choice between GOP and Democrat if there was a realignment. But I went Libertarian in 1993 before the whole 1994 election cycle.

Right now, the GOP and Democrats agre far too much on the size and scope of government. Republicans want to be in our bedrooms. Democrats want to be in our medicine cabinets. Neither are in the business of leaving us alone.

I think they argue about it just to distract us. In the end, they want the same thing. They who argue best end up in power with control of the money

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln