GOP: Shutdown shouldn't apply to us

[turtlespeed 226]

jgoose71

***... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

You forget, they did compromise, they allowed back pay.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

BTW
The house has sent many bills to the Senate that have never been debated or voted on

Your one sided digust is just as disgusting

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

jgoose71

***... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jgoose71 0]

turtlespeed

******... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

You forget, they did compromise, they allowed back pay.
To bad they won't open parks. They even have people blocking off public views of Federal parks from non-Federal lands in South Dakota (Mount Rushmore)

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

******... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

Please explain how this is affordable.

Quote

will cost taxpayers more than $1.6 trillion over the next decade, according to the latest CBO estimates. Given the history of federal entitlement programs and the back-loaded nature of Obamacare spending, some estimate the full implementation cost could reach $2.6 trillion over ten years. It will increase the federal government's health spending by 15 percent.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

******... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

After reading the rest of the article, I conclude that they have the law and the right to do do this. It is part of the Check and Balance system.

If all they have is this left to comabt Obama care as it is, then more power to them.

If the Left is too stubborn to give in, it's their fault. They have been out played and should acquiesce.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[jgoose71 0]

quade

******... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

Yes, the Articles you link site a "road map to defund Obamacare" in the road map there is mentions of attaching appropriations riders for the defunding.

None of that is on the floor right now.

The bills being shot down by the senate though have nothing to do with Obamacare. Reid wants the budget to come come over all as one bill with Obamacare in tact and will not sign any more "mini-bills" until it does.

He is trying to avoid a discussion on Obamacare by it's self, and holding the country hostage in the process.

Yes, the republicans want to get rid of Obamacare. Yes they have a plan. It's Harry Ried holding the country hostage right now though. And Obama is supporting him.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Bignugget 0]

turtlespeed

*********... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

After reading the rest of the article, I conclude that they have the law and the right to do do this. It is part of the Check and Balance system.

If all they have is this left to comabt Obama care as it is, then more power to them.

If the Left is too stubborn to give in, it's their fault. They have been out played and should acquiesce.


Or they could just wait.

They already have the presidency.

Temper tantrums only work if you have something to trade, or the other guy is weak.

I don't see Obama flinching on his signature legislation any time soon.

Personally I don't care if the government stays how it is now.


But I am pretty certain them refusing to send a funding bill up that will pass is not endearing more people to the GOP.

Or rather, CONVERTING people from Democrats and Independents , to Republicans....which is what they need in order to ever have a president that thinks like RUSHMC again.

[jgoose71 0]

quade

******... the Republican Party are to blame here. This is well documented.

IF they are so confident it's the wrong thing to do, then bring it to a VOTE.

Please cite documents.

Obama and Reid saying so is not well documented. The house has been sending over "mini-bills" for them to sign, trying to get out bits and pieces that everyone can agree on, and the Senate has shot them down.

But people are going to believe what ever they want, truth or not.

Here's an article explaining the basics.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?hp&_r=1&

Here's the actual document in question. Hilariously, the document is still on-line.
http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/ryanriebe/joint-letter-on-sequester-savings

Also, one of the bills Obama threaten to Veto would have opened up state parks and brought life saving Cancer medicine to the children.

Why does Obama hate children?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 3,112]

>Do you really believe either party is more guilty of causing the the shutdown?

Yes. The GOP said it would shut down the government if they didn't get their way. They followed through on their threat.

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>Do you really believe either party is more guilty of causing the the shutdown?

Yes. The GOP said it would shut down the government if they didn't get their way. They followed through on their threat.

I think you misunderstand.

They provided the tools for the Senate and President to shut down the government. They don't have the power to shut the government down by themselves.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rhaig 0]

Bignugget

But I am pretty certain them refusing to send a funding bill up that will pass is not endearing more people to the GOP.

Is that the way it's supposed to work? "Hmm... what do we think they want to vote for... let's do that."

If it were a Democrat controlled house sending bills to a Republican controlled senate, and the media reported it as "House sends funding bills to the Senate, but they won't vote on them, and if they passed one, the Republican president vowed to veto it!" Then whose fault would it be?

--
Rob

[billvon 3,112]

>They provided the tools for the Senate and President to shut down the government.

They threatened to shut down the government and they did. They could - RIGHT NOW - call a vote, send the bill to Obama and fund the government. They refuse. This is not a surprise because they threatened to do this in a letter sent to Obama weeks before the deadline.

Obama cannot end this. He was unable to do anything about it when it first happened since he was not given anything to sign. He is prohibited by the Constitution from initiating bills; all he can do is sign or veto them. Any one with even an ounce of understanding of the Constitution* would know this.

(* - which excludes most Republicans, apparently.)

>They don't have the power to shut the government down by themselves.

Sure they do. All they have to do is refuse to do their jobs. Right now Boehner is refusing to call a vote, because he knows he no longer has the votes to shoot down a clean bill. And unless he calls a vote the process cannot proceed.

[normiss 893]

Most people, including some of the liberal media, are smart enough to understand both sides are to blame.

[billvon 3,112]

>Most people, including some of the liberal media, are smart enough to understand
>both sides are to blame.

Interesting that you have become a media believer.

[normiss 893]

Touche' in that regard.

I blame ALL politicians however.

I'm over the us vs. them. This is an AMERICAN, USA problem.
Not yours. not mine, not theirs.
OURS.

ALL of those morons we seem unable to expel from fucking us over need to get their shit in one sock and fix this.
Which they will of course. Temporarily. Right before it kills us.
Only to repeat again. and again. and again.

We need to fix our government.

[normiss 893]

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

[billvon 3,112]

>"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of
>leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a
>sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to
>finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies."

Definitely agreed there. We have to stop raising the debt limit and start paying down our debt.

(Keep in mind, however, that this shutdown has nothing to do with the debt limit. The shutdown was over a refusal to pass a continuing resolution to keep the government open. The debt limit is hit in ten days, at which point they will have to raise the debt limit. And while there will no doubt be another huge fight it's a separate issue.)

[rehmwa 2]

Speaker's Corner on this topic is really rolling along. Right down to people being dicks and freakishly patronizing to each other with personal attacks and snide, pointless crap. And blankly repeating the same matras from both sides. Empty finger pointing, etc etc etc.

Apparently we do have a congress that represents the people. Or at least this microcosm of society.

we are doomed

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>They provided the tools for the Senate and President to shut down the government.

They threatened to shut down the government and they did. They could - RIGHT NOW - call a vote, send the bill to Obama and fund the government. They refuse. This is not a surprise because they threatened to do this in a letter sent to Obama weeks before the deadline.

Obama cannot end this. He was unable to do anything about it when it first happened since he was not given anything to sign. He is prohibited by the Constitution from initiating bills; all he can do is sign or veto them. Any one with even an ounce of understanding of the Constitution* would know this.

(* - which excludes most Republicans, apparently.)

>They don't have the power to shut the government down by themselves.

Sure they do. All they have to do is refuse to do their jobs. Right now Boehner is refusing to call a vote, because he knows he no longer has the votes to shoot down a clean bill. And unless he calls a vote the process cannot proceed.

And the SENATE has said, and still insists it, will sign only one CR that is sent to them. That is what is called a stalemate. You can't have a stale mate unless there are more than one player.

The culpability lands firmly in Obama's lap, as he has said he veto anything that the senate signs.

Your imagination is getting the better of you if you really believe the Senate is innocent of any shutdown. They see no reason to send anything up to Obama with the pretense he won't sign it.

Who has culpability now?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

rehmwa

we are doomed

No one gets out of this life alive.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 4]

turtlespeed

Who has culpability now?

The 30 or so jackasses who started it versus the remaining 407 others in the House who didn't seem to give a rats ass until they started kicking and screaming like spoiled children.

See, THAT is the thing that's pissing me off here. It's the actions of about 30 people holding up over 300 million.

Fuck those guys.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 893]

Quote

Fuck those guys.

Hence the situation we have in front of us now.

Until we stop the FUCK YOU attitude, nothing will change.
I actually expect it to get quite worse before people realize it enough to actually care to even think about changing it.

Most Americans seem to be lazy as hell when it comes to politics.
That's changing I think.

[quade 4]

normiss

Most Americans seem to be lazy as hell when it comes to politics.
That's changing I think.

It's less than 10% of the House holding up 100% of the business.

Again, fuck those guys. They were never given that sort of power, they've simply assumed it and because of their big money backers have convinced Boehner to go along with it. And yes, they are holding the country hostage over their temper tantrum.

Can you even in your wildest imagination conceive of the Democrats being allowed to get away with that sort of nonsense?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,112]

>The culpability lands firmly in Obama's lap, as he has said he veto anything that the
>senate signs.

It would if he actually vetoed it. As it is, the culpability lies purely with the people who refuse to send him a bill, as they planned to do several months ago.

From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:


=================================
Who put the handcuffs on Boehner? These guys did
Jay Bookman
Posted: 11:16 a.m. Tuesday, Oct. 1, 2013

John Boehner could end this right now. He has the votes; he just doesn't have the guts to use them. If he put a "clean" bill before the House that funded the government at current levels, with no extraneous language about ObamaCare or other issues, it would pass with a bipartisan majority. The Senate would quickly pass it, the president would sign it and this particular little chapter would be over.

But Boehner won't do that, because conservatives in his caucus won't let him. They have hungered for this fight, they now have it, and they think they can win it. The question is why they think that way.

One way to answer that question is to look at the 80 conservative Republican congressmen who back in August sent a letter to Boehner, demanding that he refuse to pass a spending bill unless ObamaCare is defunded. By some accounts, that letter -- initiated by U.S. Rep. Mark Meadows of North Carolina, and backed by groups such as FreedomWorks and Heritage Action -- is the origin of this government shutdown.

. . . .

These are the people, the districts and the "voters back home" who are dictating House Republican strategy. These congressmen have no incentive to moderate or compromise, and they almost literally live in a bubble where most people think exactly as they do. So as far as they're concerned, "everybody" does. And they act accordingly.
==============================