The effect of the AHCA

[rushmc 23]

No so good
But then, anyone who had an open mind knew from the start that the AHCA had nothing to do with HC

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It's Official: Obamacare Will Increase Health Spending By $7,450 For A Typical Family of Four

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/23/its-official-obamacare-will-increase-health-spending-by-7450-for-a-typical-family-of-four/


From the article, quotes from the liar en chief

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It was one of candidate Obama’s most vivid and concrete campaign promises. Forget about high minded (some might say high sounding) but gauzy promises of hope and change. This candidate solemnly pledged on June 5, 2008: “In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year….. We’ll do it by the end of my first term as President of the United States.” Unfortunately, the experts working for Medicare’s actuary have (yet again[1]) reported that in its first 10 years, Obamacare will boost health spending by “roughly $621 billion” above the amounts Americans would have spent without this misguided law.

And if in the end it does lower costs (which is will not)
Your choices will need to be severly limited

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WASHINGTON — Federal officials often say that health insurance will cost consumers less than expected under President Obama’s health care law. But they rarely mention one big reason: many insurers are significantly limiting the choices of doctors and hospitals available to consumers.




Enlarge This Image

Andrea Morales for The New York Times

Peter L. Gosline, the chief executive of Monadnock Community Hospital in Peterborough, N.H.


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From California to Illinois to New Hampshire, and in many states in between, insurers are driving down premiums by restricting the number of providers who will treat patients in their new health plans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/health/lower-health-insurance-premiums-to-come-at-cost-of-fewer-choices.html?_r=0

End it
Before it ends US

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

There goes a lot of money for jump tickets. Hope your favorite DZ doesn't close.

[rushmc 23]

It is just starting

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/24/one-man-obamacare-nightmare/

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Andy and Amy Mangione of Louisville, Ky. and their two boys are just the kind of people who should be helped by ObamaCare. But they recently got a nasty surprise in the mail.




"When I saw the letter when I came home from work," Andy said, describing the large red wording on the envelope from his insurance carrier, "(it said) 'your action required,benefit changes, act now.' Of course I opened it immediately."

It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yep, but this crowd won't understand the real effects until they intrude on their lives and affect them in a negative way.
Wait until you hear the whining when Skydive Chicago or Z-Hills closes due to their customers having less money to spend on jump tickets and gear. Then, as usual, they will look for a way to blame it on Republicans.

And so it goes.......

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Gravitymaster

There goes a lot of money for jump tickets. Hope your favorite DZ doesn't close.

No because much of the burden will be borne by "the wealthy".

At the 2011 median household income of $50,502 a family of four's insurance expenditures are capped at $4065 a year or $339 a month provided that they buy through their state exchange which is in-line with what catastrophic plans cost before Obamacare.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

rushmc

It is just starting
It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

A family of four earning less than $94,200 a year (in the top 25%) that buys its insurance through a state exchange has its expenses capped at $745 a month.

At the 2011 median household income for people holding at least a bachelor's degree of $73,466 it'd be $581 a month.

At the 2011 median household income of $50,502 it'd be under $339 a month.

With most "professional" jobs coming with health insurance they're probably on the low end of that scale and won't be paying for the increased costs themselves.

If they're earning below the national median their share of insurance costs is going to drop.

[rushmc 23]

DrewEckhardt

***It is just starting
It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

A family of four earning less than $94,200 a year (in the top 25%) that buys its insurance through a state exchange has its expenses capped at $745 a month.

At the 2011 median household income for people holding at least a bachelor's degree of $73,466 it'd be $581 a month.

At the 2011 median household income of $50,502 it'd be under $339 a month.

With most "professional" jobs coming with health insurance they're probably on the low end of that scale and won't be paying for the increased costs themselves.

If they're earning below the national median their share of insurance costs is going to drop.

Many states do not and will not have exchanges as the SC ruled the fed could not force them to do so
And rightfully so

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rickjump1 0]

DrewEckhardt

***There goes a lot of money for jump tickets. Hope your favorite DZ doesn't close.

No because much of the burden will be borne by "the wealthy".
That doesn't seem fair. Ever get a job from a poor person? This is nothing less than redistribution of wealth, and it's only the beginning of more government control of our lives. Look at the USPS or Amtrak. When the government gets involved with any type of business they fail only to be bailed out by we taxpayers.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[wmw999 2,584]

Actually, I believe they will have exchanges; they'll just be run by the feds (which is what happens for Medicare add-on policies now) instead of by the states.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

wmw999

Actually, I believe they will have exchanges; they'll just be run by the feds (which is what happens for Medicare add-on policies now) instead of by the states.

Wendy P.

There will be exchanges
But, there will not be state exchanges in some states

But, the bill has no provisions to fund federal exchanges as of right now

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 226]

DrewEckhardt

***It is just starting
It had stunning news. Insurance for the Mangiones and their two boys,which they bought on the individual market, was going to almost triple in 2014 --- from $333 a month to $965.

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

A family of four earning less than $94,200 a year (in the top 25%) that buys its insurance through a state exchange has its expenses capped at $745 a month.

At the 2011 median household income for people holding at least a bachelor's degree of $73,466 it'd be $581 a month.

At the 2011 median household income of $50,502 it'd be under $339 a month.

With most "professional" jobs coming with health insurance they're probably on the low end of that scale and won't be paying for the increased costs themselves.

If they're earning below the national median their share of insurance costs is going to drop.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DrewEckhardt 0]

turtlespeed

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If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

[rushmc 23]

DrewEckhardt

***

Quote

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

You have drank the cool aid

The ACA insures that very few will be able to keep their current insurance because it for one thing, it will not be the same insurance and will be come unafordable

As designed
The liar en chief was less than truthful

The whole thing is designed to fail and bring on single payer

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[DrewEckhardt 0]

rushmc

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People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

You have drank the cool aid

Nope. I'm just providing _facts_. People are free to keep their existing coverage under the circumstances I outlined. The observant reader would note that's like the states being free to have a drinking age of 18 which just doesn't happen due to the federal financial strings attached to the desired behavior.

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The whole thing is designed to fail and bring on single payer

Hardly.

While sold to the people by proponents and opponents as a socialist program, as passed ACA is a corporatist play intended to maximize profits for companies like those that belong to PhRMA (Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America) which had objectionable provisions like the reimport clause removed and then spent $150M passing the bill to send billions of tax dollars their way.

If ACA survives the political onslaught which precedes peoples' tax refund from the subsidies it'll still be with us in ten years like Medicare Part D which is the other $100B/year tax funnel to corporatist interests in medical industries.

The problem here is that most people won't have to pay for the cost increases. 15% of Americans are on Medicare because they're too old or disabled to be profitable. 23% of us receive Medicaid because we're too poor for profit. 45% of us get health insurance through our employers which is already expensive for the same reasons post-ACA insurance will start out being expensive (no pre-existing condition exclusions, limited premium spread due to age, captive market which can't leave without loosing subsidies). That leaves just 17% of the population getting private insurance who could be effected by increasing prices.

When those people make less than 400% of the Federal poverty level ($94,200 for a family of 4) their contribution is capped between 2 and 9.5% of income. Given the tendency. With group coverage tending to accompany higher paying jobs we can expect more of those people to be at the high-subsidy end of the spectrum and not paying for those increases.

Costs will go up more as health insurers spend more which is the only way to increase profits under ACA which allows them to collect 25% more than they spend on medical care as premiums although that'll have no negative effect on the 17% receiving subsidies.

With a $10/month generic drug allowing just $2.50 of gross profit and $100/month patented medicine yielding $25 we can expect more spending on the brand-name drugs advertised on television so the perceived quality of care will go up and people will have even fewer reasons to oppose ACA.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Iago

Which jusr means the government picks up the rest of the tab. So basically the insurance co can jack the premium as high as they want.

Exactly.

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Sucks to be the family of our making just a little bit more that doesnt qualify for a cp. And if your hiusehold income is 92k a year you shouldnt need a subsidy. You are up there in the top tier income-wise.

At that income level if you're neither self employed nor a family with both adults each working several low-wage jobs you probably have employer provided health care which is already expensive.

After receiving their 2014 tax refund very few people will see a net decrease in income which is exactly the point - subsidies extend so far so that the few negatively affected Americans won't be a viable voting block.

It's like the 25-59% capital gains tax increase with the low end kicking in at $200K a year for singles and $250K for couples (top 5%) and high end $400K/$450K (top 1%) - offensive, but applicable to so few people it won't cost congress critters their jobs.

[turtlespeed 226]

DrewEckhardt

***

Quote

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

Uh huh.
Reality shows things to be different than you describe.

You are saying that you can keep your same coverage, with no increase in cost, no supplemental fees, and no decrease in coverage at all?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Channman 2]

Gravitymaster

Yep, but this crowd won't understand the real effects until they intrude on their lives and affect them in a negative way.
Wait until you hear the whining when Skydive Chicago or Z-Hills closes due to their customers having less money to spend on jump tickets and gear. Then, as usual, they will look for a way to blame it on Republicans.

And so it goes.......

Why, are republicans allowed to jump there?

[airdvr 210]

DrewEckhardt

***

Quote

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

Well that's mighty white of 'em. What you describe is another gouge of the people responsible enough to carry health insurance.

The folks this is designed to help don't pay income tax. What incentive do they have?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 2,146]

turtlespeed

******

Quote

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

Uh huh.
Reality shows things to be different than you describe.

You are saying that you can keep your same coverage, with no increase in cost, no supplemental fees, and no decrease in coverage at all?

Cost of my coverage has just gone down - a lot.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

kallend

*********

Quote

If their IQ exceeds room temperature they'll buy through their state exchange and collect their Federal subsidy.

What happened to being able to keep your current coverage?

People are free to keep their current coverage as long as it conforms to the ACA requirements, they're willing to cover the entire tab themselves, and their insurer doesn't decide to discontinue it.

Uh huh.
Reality shows things to be different than you describe.

You are saying that you can keep your same coverage, with no increase in cost, no supplemental fees, and no decrease in coverage at all?

Cost of my coverage has just gone down - a lot.

For the same coverage with the same doctors and same benefits of the plan?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun