Castle Doctrine...

[wmw999 2,587]

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Agree with that, and with drug companies being able to advertise directly.

However, consider that before, some victimized people really just had to take it. And don't even try to say that no one was victimized -- consider the fate of minorities in majority neighborhoods, of poor people in rich neighborhoods, and of homeless nearly everywhere.

The law does need to enforce the law, and not politeness. I'm not sure how we can get back to where politeness matters, too, when everyone is standing on their rights. But before railing on this topic, consider something important to each of you (guns? gay marriage? abortion?) and whether you'd be willing to be impolite to get your point across.

Then consider that there are 300 million people in the country, each one of whom thinks their opinion matters, too.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[masterrig 1]

wmw999

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Agree with that, and with drug companies being able to advertise directly.

However, consider that before, some victimized people really just had to take it. And don't even try to say that no one was victimized -- consider the fate of minorities in majority neighborhoods, of poor people in rich neighborhoods, and of homeless nearly everywhere.

The law does need to enforce the law, and not politeness. I'm not sure how we can get back to where politeness matters, too, when everyone is standing on their rights. But before railing on this topic, consider something important to each of you (guns? gay marriage? abortion?) and whether you'd be willing to be impolite to get your point across.

Then consider that there are 300 million people in the country, each one of whom thinks their opinion matters, too.

Wendy P.

My doctor told me that with the drug companies advertising on t.v., he gets more of his patients telling him they need this or that drug.
Agreed, the laws do need to be enforced but I believe, the laws and rights get stretched and twisted, just a bit at times. I would like to think that one can defend their position without anger or bullying but reality tells me that that isn't always the case. People get real serious about their cause. I believe the 'it's all about me' attitude in our society has certainly changed things.


Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

masterrig

***

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Agree with that, and with drug companies being able to advertise directly.

However, consider that before, some victimized people really just had to take it. And don't even try to say that no one was victimized -- consider the fate of minorities in majority neighborhoods, of poor people in rich neighborhoods, and of homeless nearly everywhere.

The law does need to enforce the law, and not politeness. I'm not sure how we can get back to where politeness matters, too, when everyone is standing on their rights. But before railing on this topic, consider something important to each of you (guns? gay marriage? abortion?) and whether you'd be willing to be impolite to get your point across.

Then consider that there are 300 million people in the country, each one of whom thinks their opinion matters, too.

Wendy P.

My doctor told me that with the drug companies advertising on t.v., he gets more of his patients telling him they need this or that drug.
Agreed, the laws do need to be enforced but I believe, the laws and rights get stretched and twisted, just a bit at times. I would like to think that one can defend their position without anger or bullying but reality tells me that that isn't always the case. People get real serious about their cause. I believe the 'it's all about me' attitude in our society has certainly changed things.


Chuck

Comes from the Internet, too. My doctor told me he gets patients coming in with their self diagnoses they got from the Internet. Said some come in with print outs from medical websites.

It's really a shame that our society has developed such a hard edge. This used to be a fun country to live in. We used to play in the creek when we were kids and our parents never used to worry about us being shot, sexually molested, or kidnapped.

[masterrig 1]

Gravitymaster

******

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Agree with that, and with drug companies being able to advertise directly.

However, consider that before, some victimized people really just had to take it. And don't even try to say that no one was victimized -- consider the fate of minorities in majority neighborhoods, of poor people in rich neighborhoods, and of homeless nearly everywhere.

The law does need to enforce the law, and not politeness. I'm not sure how we can get back to where politeness matters, too, when everyone is standing on their rights. But before railing on this topic, consider something important to each of you (guns? gay marriage? abortion?) and whether you'd be willing to be impolite to get your point across.

Then consider that there are 300 million people in the country, each one of whom thinks their opinion matters, too.

Wendy P.

My doctor told me that with the drug companies advertising on t.v., he gets more of his patients telling him they need this or that drug.
Agreed, the laws do need to be enforced but I believe, the laws and rights get stretched and twisted, just a bit at times. I would like to think that one can defend their position without anger or bullying but reality tells me that that isn't always the case. People get real serious about their cause. I believe the 'it's all about me' attitude in our society has certainly changed things.


Chuck

Comes from the Internet, too. My doctor told me he gets patients coming in with their self diagnoses they got from the Internet. Said some come in with print outs from medical websites.

It's really a shame that our society has developed such a hard edge. This used to be a fun country to live in. We used to play in the creek when we were kids and our parents never used to worry about us being shot, sexually molested, or kidnapped.

I now understand what my Dad and Granddad meant by the 'good ol' days'! For me, growing-up was like you described. We had a creek that ran through our property and me and my dog spent a lot of time around that creek. I had chores to do and life was good. Living out in the country was good. Now, it seems that kids have everything handed to them. Their imaginations aren't 'pushed'. It's computers, video games and texting.


Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

Yep, I remember when you could push another kid in the water just for fun without having to worry about being sued and arrested for assault.

[masterrig 1]

Ha, ha, ha... You asked him if he was o.k. and when he said 'yeah', you laughed your ass-off and went on. Probably took the kid home to dry off.


Chuck

[Gravitymaster 0]

More like he'd chase you down and tackle you and maybe punch you in the arm and chest a few times. Heck, sometimes you would even get a bruise or two. Today, you would end up in councelling and probably be put on ritilan for the same behavior.

[wmw999 2,587]

Unless, of course, you were the bully, or he was a wimp. This is the rhetorical "you," of course.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Gravitymaster 0]

We didn't hang out with bully's. if one was causing problems, the parents would be made aware and they would deal with him. Where I grew up, parents didn't tolorate their kids being bullies. Or we would all gang up on him and kick his ass.

[turtlespeed 226]

wmw999

Unless, of course, you were the bully, or he was a wimp. This is the rhetorical "you," of course.

Wendy P.

Not the "Universal You"?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[masterrig 1]

There ya' go! Either that or the kid now days would come back with his 'posse' and a couple A-K's!


Chuck

[Andy9o8 2]

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I'll bet you a cup of coffee, he won't be able to re-new his CCW permit!

And that's the real tragedy of this right there.
Plus, coffee will make you hafta whizz, old man. Best take care where you let er rip.

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Well, in fairness, not the worst. Chemical weapons and genocide would probably be worse. But it would be worse than, say, most sex offenses or punching out some grandma.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Now it's possible that the drunken idiots did initiate contact by throwing rocks.

I'm very skeptical that that actually happened. His lawyer fully understands what's needed to assert a "defense of one's person defense" under the castle doctrine; and the "rocks" claim has all the hallmarks of that.

I'll bet if we had a time machine and a video camera, we'd see the fed-up homeowner verbally and angrily reproaching the group, someone in the group drunkenly telling him to go fuck himself and them laughing at him, at which point his anger took over and he fired the shots. But no rocks.

[DiverMike 5]

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at which point his anger took over and he fired the shots. But no rocks.

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Burgess said it was only after Dart was shot that members of the party picked up rocks to defend themselves against Crocker, who was armed with a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

Not sure I agree with you. They admit to throwing rocks. Who brings rocks to a gunfight? If someone is shooting at me, and the two choices I have are to throw rocks or run (swim/canoe) away, I am outa there.

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.

[kelpdiver 2]

Andy9o8

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Now it's possible that the drunken idiots did initiate contact by throwing rocks.

I'm very skeptical that that actually happened. His lawyer fully understands what's needed to assert a "defense of one's person defense" under the castle doctrine; and the "rocks" claim has all the hallmarks of that.

Given that my very next sentence, which you inappropriately cropped out, was: "More likely the guy lost control and needs a conviction for manslaughter," I'm not sure what the point here is.

But then again, Diver Mike's logic has some meat to it as well. Anyone who watches Mythbusters knows that if someone is shooting at you, get in the water. Unlike movies, real bullets don't penetrate the surface very well.


I'll bet if we had a time machine and a video camera, we'd see the fed-up homeowner verbally and angrily reproaching the group, someone in the group drunkenly telling him to go fuck himself and them laughing at him, at which point his anger took over and he fired the shots. But no rocks.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Given that my very next sentence, which you inappropriately cropped out, was: "More likely the guy lost control and needs a conviction for manslaughter," I'm not sure what the point here is.

Because in the course of multi-tasking while at my desk, I read as far as your first paragraph and just hurriedly responded to it, neglecting to read the rest of your post. Apologies for my weak diligence. Nothing more devious than that; I'm really only half the douche most people on here think I am.

[rehmwa 2]

kelpdiver

I'll bet if we had a time machine and a video camera, we'd see the fed-up homeowner verbally and angrily reproaching the group, someone in the group drunkenly telling him to go fuck himself and them laughing at him and tossing some rocks at him , at which point his anger took over and he fired the shots. .......

I'd believe rocks thrown. Else the homeowner would have come up with something better. Not everyone has such a thin skin like some of our more nasty posters here.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

rehmwa

I'd believe rocks thrown. Else the homeowner would have come up with something better. Not everyone has such a thin skin like some of our more nasty posters here.

People put out all sorts of terrible stories. The only other available weapon to the paddlers would have been their oars, which don't work very well as spears.

the 2014 moral may be, if you're going out to confront people with a gun in your waist, wear Google Glasses (I have an order in for a sports oriented rival) and start recording.

He is alone against multiple boaters who are all associated with each other. So instead of his word against him, it's his word against many, which seems compelling if similar. Couple with the lack of injury (rocks thrown still represent a threat, but without marks it's hard to establish), he's in a bad place if he actually is in the right.

I feel for the guy, but tend to suspect he acted badly and has to pay for what he did.

[masterrig 1]

Andy9o8

Quote

I'll bet you a cup of coffee, he won't be able to re-new his CCW permit!

And that's the real tragedy of this right there.
Plus, coffee will make you hafta whizz, old man. Best take care where you let er rip.

By golly, you're right! After all, coffee 'natural' diuretic! Ain't that a bitch!

Quote

I think, the worst thing was allowing lawyers to advertise on t.v.

Well, in fairness, not the worst. Chemical weapons and genocide would probably be worse. But it would be worse than, say, most sex offenses or punching out some grandma.

Well, I guess, there are worse things than a lawyer advertising. It just gets to me when I hear one say; "Have you been injured by a BIG TRUCK?" or another is from a local mouthpiece; 'One of my clients was in a bad wreck and broke her leg. I got her $68,520 and 27 cents... that's in her pocket!' He comes across like an ambulance chaser.


Chuck

[quade 4]

masterrig

I got her $68,520 and 27 cents... that's in her pocket!' He comes across like an ambulance chaser.

Then . . . mission accomplished. That's exactly the point (regardless of how distasteful).

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,590]

masterrig

Well, I guess, there are worse things than a lawyer advertising. It just gets to me when I hear one say; "Have you been injured by a BIG TRUCK?" or another is from a local mouthpiece; 'One of my clients was in a bad wreck and broke her leg. I got her $68,520 and 27 cents... that's in her pocket!' He comes across like an ambulance chaser.

Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPd67CEL54E

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[masterrig 1]

quade

***I got her $68,520 and 27 cents... that's in her pocket!' He comes across like an ambulance chaser.

Then . . . mission accomplished. That's exactly the point (regardless of how distasteful).


Yup! It's all about the money! They just come across as cheesy, to me.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

ryoder

***
Well, I guess, there are worse things than a lawyer advertising. It just gets to me when I hear one say; "Have you been injured by a BIG TRUCK?" or another is from a local mouthpiece; 'One of my clients was in a bad wreck and broke her leg. I got her $68,520 and 27 cents... that's in her pocket!' He comes across like an ambulance chaser.

Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPd67CEL54E

Good grief!


Chuck

[wolfriverjoe 1,523]

Andy9o8

Quote

Now it's possible that the drunken idiots did initiate contact by throwing rocks.

I'm very skeptical that that actually happened. His lawyer fully understands what's needed to assert a "defense of one's person defense" under the castle doctrine; and the "rocks" claim has all the hallmarks of that.

I'll bet if we had a time machine and a video camera, we'd see the fed-up homeowner verbally and angrily reproaching the group, someone in the group drunkenly telling him to go fuck himself and them laughing at him, at which point his anger took over and he fired the shots. But no rocks.

I don't know about that. One of the earlier stories on this had a statement from one of the boaters that they had picked up rocks before the shots were fired.

And because the boaters were already trespassing and vandalizing the property, the homeowner was within his rights to confront them. And the boaters wouldn't have a valid self defense claim because they were in the wrong as trespassers and vandals.

That could make this a valid self-defense claim by the homeowner. But that will be up to the jury.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DiverMike 5]

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And the boaters wouldn't have a valid self defense claim because they were in the wrong as trespassers and vandals.

I should let the lawyers respond to this, but that statement is not true. There is plenty of case law where it has been upheld that trespassers have the right to use lethal force to defend themselves when assaulted by the property owner (assuming all the criteria for self defense is met).

For the same reason I jump off a perfectly good diving board.