War with Syria

[billvon 3,092]

>Did you feel the same way about W during the Iraq war as it became apparent that
>the very reason we went in was a lie?

That was different! Back then there was a threat that Saddam Hussein would use WMD's against his own people - and maybe even us.

[normiss 882]

But but but!!!

He did gas his own!

[lawrocket 3]

billvon

>speaking cynically, isn't this just a response to the reality that he would lose, badly,
>on a vote right now?

I think it's a response to a potential diplomatic solution. It would be pointless to even call for a vote if there were a good diplomatic option on the table. And if the threat of attack got Assad to the bargaining table - well played.

Haven't the President and the Secretary of State spent three weeks telling us that diplomacy is not a response to a chemical attack? Didn't the President and the Secretary of State spend three weeks telling us that UN involvement and international consensus are unnecessary?

Speaking cynically, aren't the POTUS and Secretary of State now in the position of telling the world that while everybody may think it's egg on their faces, that it was actually a nutritious meal called les oefs sur le visage, and it was MEANT to be there.

I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the brilliant moves that the President and the secretary of State made. There's even a guy suggesting that due to Kerry's brilliance, $400 million dollars will be saved! Yep! Indeed. The President and Kerry were prepared to spend $400 milliom on this war! And now it looks like we'll have a savings of that amount.

That's like saying that George Zimmerman saved the lives of his wife and father-in-law by not killing them, and saved the taxpayers multiple millions of dollars by avoiding trial and imprisonment! What a swell guy with such excellent budget consciensciouness.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[quade 4]

lawrocket

I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the ...

You can just stop right there.

I'm completely depressed by most people's attempts to score Red vs Blue points on this.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

quade

***I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the ...

You can just stop right there.

I'm completely depressed by most people's attempts to score Red vs Blue points on this.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

This was never Red v. Blue for me. It was about a POTUS who is just about clueless when it comes to foreign relations, and a boatload of other things too. I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 226]

airdvr

******I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the ...

You can just stop right there.

I'm completely depressed by most people's attempts to score Red vs Blue points on this.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

This was never Red v. Blue for me. It was about a POTUS who is just about clueless when it comes to foreign relations, and a boatload of other things too. I'm surprised something like this hasn't happened sooner.

You assume that Obama is allowed to pull his own strings.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,092]

>Haven't the President and the Secretary of State spent three weeks telling us that
>diplomacy is not a response to a chemical attack?

Yes. And if that was enough to force Assad to accept an offer of a diplomatic solution to stop the big bad US from bombing him - then good.

>I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the
>brilliant moves that the President and the secretary of State made.

They were far from brilliant. "Threaten countries with bombing" takes no brilliance at all, and Kerry's "brilliance" was a mistake that others (and then Kerry himself) capitalized on. It's akin to someone who gets drunk, falls into a creek, climbs out and then discovers gold in the creek. Is it a good outcome? Yes. Is his family happy that he did not get hurt and now has a pile of money? Yes. Was it a brilliant move? No, it was a stupid move.

>Speaking cynically, aren't the POTUS and Secretary of State now in the position of
>telling the world that while everybody may think it's egg on their faces . . .

We approach this from different angles.

Your primary issue seems to be how to blame Obama for this, and you fear how much other people will praise Obama for it. I don't really care. What I do care about is that the US will likely not be dropping bombs on foreign countries and killing innocent people.

[turtlespeed 226]

billvon

>Haven't the President and the Secretary of State spent three weeks telling us that
>diplomacy is not a response to a chemical attack?

Yes. And if that was enough to force Assad to accept an offer of a diplomatic solution to stop the big bad US from bombing him - then good.

>I'm still flummoxed that there are people out there spinning this like a top about the
>brilliant moves that the President and the secretary of State made.

They were far from brilliant. "Threaten countries with bombing" takes no brilliance at all, and Kerry's "brilliance" was a mistake that others (and then Kerry himself) capitalized on. It's akin to someone who gets drunk, falls into a creek, climbs out and then discovers gold in the creek. Is it a good outcome? Yes. Is his family happy that he did not get hurt and now has a pile of money? Yes. Was it a brilliant move? No, it was a stupid move.

>Speaking cynically, aren't the POTUS and Secretary of State now in the position of
>telling the world that while everybody may think it's egg on their faces . . .

We approach this from different angles.

Your primary issue seems to be how to blame Obama for this, and you fear how much other people will praise Obama for it. I don't really care. What I do care about is that the US will likely not be dropping bombs on foreign countries and killing innocent people.

And with all this said - you still think that Kerry and Obama deserve to be where they are and make the decisions they make.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lawrocket 3]

Yes. I DO have a problem with people trying to score points. I DO have a problem with anyone who won't say, "we screwed this up royally."

You know how there's been all this talk about the President's credibility? Yeah. About that. He said a week ago that his credibility is not on the line. Um - yes it is. And he destroys it by denying that. It's reminiscent of Ford claiming there is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe in his debate with Carter.

The Oniom had an opinion piece about a week ago. It was about how true courage is shown by refusing to admit you're wrong.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[masterblaster72 0]

airdvr

This was never Red v. Blue for me. It was about a POTUS who is just about clueless when it comes to foreign relations, and a boatload of other things too.

So did the previous POTUS have a clue about foreign relations? Economics? English language?

This thread really brings republican hypocrisy to light like no other.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[turtlespeed 226]

masterblaster72

***

This was never Red v. Blue for me. It was about a POTUS who is just about clueless when it comes to foreign relations, and a boatload of other things too.

So did the previous POTUS have a clue about foreign relations? Economics? English language?

This thread really brings republican hypocrisy to light like no other.

Doesn't spinning things that hard make you dizzy?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[billvon 3,092]

>And with all this said - you still think that Kerry and Obama deserve to be where they
>are and make the decisions they make.

Yes. If you disagree, the US Constitution is available on line. If you still disagree, start pushing for an amendment to the US Constitution.

[quade 4]

lawrocket

Yes. I DO have a problem with people trying to score points. I DO have a problem with anyone who won't say, "we screwed this up royally."

You're just spewing nonsense and trying to score points.

The PRESIDENT, any president of the US, really has no option but to speak out against chemical weapons attacks and yes, that INCLUDES the option of force to put an end to it. It HAS to. You can quibble all you want to precisely what was said, but he had no choice. It shows a huge lack of world leadership to sit back and just watch countries gas innocent civilians.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airdvr 210]

masterblaster72

***

This was never Red v. Blue for me. It was about a POTUS who is just about clueless when it comes to foreign relations, and a boatload of other things too.

So did the previous POTUS have a clue about foreign relations? Economics? English language?

This thread really brings republican hypocrisy to light like no other.

Umm...who is making it Red v. Blue?

Perhaps you should pay more attention to Switzerland's pressing problems of finding a new National Anthem, exporting ski lifts to N. Korea, and refusing to sell a purse to Oprah.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 210]

quade

***Yes. I DO have a problem with people trying to score points. I DO have a problem with anyone who won't say, "we screwed this up royally."

You're just spewing nonsense and trying to score points.

The PRESIDENT, any president of the US, really has no option but to speak out against chemical weapons attacks and yes, that INCLUDES the option of force to put an end to it. It HAS to. You can quibble all you want to precisely what was said, but he had no choice. It shows a huge lack of world leadership to sit back and just watch countries gas innocent civilians.

He did some talking for sure...

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[quade 4]

Quote

He did some talking for sure...

If Syria turns over its chemical weapons, will you still see it as a failure even though no US blood or treasure was spent?

I simply do NOT understand you people.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,590]

Jon Stewart does an excellent job of explaining how the pending diplomatic solution came about:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-10-2013/middle-eastern-promises---blue-bombs

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

Quote

He did some talking for sure...

If Syria turns over its chemical weapons, will you still see it as a failure even though no US blood or treasure was spent?

I simply do NOT understand you people.

Do you understand that Obama made the bombing statement because he claimed Assad had already used CW's and that he warned them previously of what would happen if they did? Not that Assad has now has promised not to do it again.

[airdvr 210]

quade

Quote

He did some talking for sure...

If Syria turns over its chemical weapons, will you still see it as a failure even though no US blood or treasure was spent?

I simply do NOT understand you people.

First, do you really believe Assad will turn over all of his WMD?

Secondly Barry exemplifies why many parents have problem controlling their children; no follow through. If you're going to threaten military action you'd better be fucking ready to do it. Don't just toss the idea around to see what happens. That's what a spineless career politician does. I don't want to see us lob a couple of cruise missiles into Syria but dammit man, if the POTUS says that's what we're gonna do then we should do it. Now what little cred we had is gone.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 23]

quade

***Yes. I DO have a problem with people trying to score points. I DO have a problem with anyone who won't say, "we screwed this up royally."

You're just spewing nonsense and trying to score points.

The PRESIDENT, any president of the US, really has no option but to speak out against chemical weapons attacks and yes, that INCLUDES the option of force to put an end to it. It HAS to. You can quibble all you want to precisely what was said, but he had no choice. It shows a huge lack of world leadership to sit back and just watch countries gas innocent civilians.

I wish I believed you really believed this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

I'm completely depressed by most people's attempts to score Red vs Blue points on this.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

your unwavering support of the Administration on this subject was a pretty clear showing of Red vs Blue. It's a bit sanctimonious to try to take others to task for partisan behavior.

[quade 4]

Your argument is silly.

The US has the most powerful military on the planet. To have bombed would be trivial. Absolutely, 100% trivial. The President was and is "fucking ready to do it" 24/7/365.

There are people who argue he's TOO willing to bomb via drones. You might want to ask some folks in Pakistan. So how the hell does anyone come to the conclusion he's not willing to drop a bit of Hellfire on Aasad?

Just because a country makes a threat and doesn't pull the trigger doesn't mean a country is weak. In fact, it means just the opposite IF it forces others to come to a diplomatic solution.

I suppose you think Kennedy was weak during the Cuban Missile Crisis because shots weren't fired?

Like I said, your argument is silly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

kelpdiver

***
I'm completely depressed by most people's attempts to score Red vs Blue points on this.

You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

your unwavering support of the Administration on this subject was a pretty clear showing of Red vs Blue. It's a bit sanctimonious to try to take others to task for partisan behavior.

In this case, I'm in favor of the OFFICE and what it HAD to do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

rushmc

******Yes. I DO have a problem with people trying to score points. I DO have a problem with anyone who won't say, "we screwed this up royally."

You're just spewing nonsense and trying to score points.

The PRESIDENT, any president of the US, really has no option but to speak out against chemical weapons attacks and yes, that INCLUDES the option of force to put an end to it. It HAS to. You can quibble all you want to precisely what was said, but he had no choice. It shows a huge lack of world leadership to sit back and just watch countries gas innocent civilians.

I wish I believed you really believed this

I do! There simply was no other choice he could make.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 226]

quade

Your argument is silly.

>>>The US has the most powerful military on the planet. To have bombed would >>>be trivial. Absolutely, 100% trivial. The President was and is "fucking ready >>>to do it" 24/7/365.

I just don't have the confidence . . . his puppeteers are, well, liberals . . . unless you are telling me that liberals are in favor of killing people - NOW - but they weren't 5 minutes ago when they were talking about benghazi.

John Kerry is one of the most outspoken people on the hill regarding the US going in and bombing and killing; To the extent of having to say it would be a miniscule attack. Which has no affect except to piss off some powerful people.



>>>There are people who argue he's TOO willing to bomb via drones. You >>>might want to ask some folks in Pakistan. So how the hell does anyone >>>come to the conclusion he's not willing to drop a bit of Hellfire on Aasad?

Actually, I found that if I only threatened grounding and didn't follow through, my daughter didn't learn the lesson.

Sometimes you just have to stand up for what you have said regardless of how bad it makes you look.

Unless you are Obama . . . then you can take a walk and decide to let the burden fall on someone else, while at the same time making the leader of the country look weak, indecisive, and unsure.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun