DEA used NSA data

[rushmc 23]

Then lies about how data was collected

Quote

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

Quote

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-program-used-investigate-091643729.html

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 226]

rushmc

Then lies about how data was collected

Quote

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

***Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-program-used-investigate-091643729.html

Big Brother is here to stay.

Resistance is futile.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wmw999 2,584]

Considering how often you've watched it on CSI, Law & Order, Hawaii 5-0, and other shows like that, why is this surprising? All those times that they pull up a list of phone calls realtime that either the perpetrator or victim made, it's from this data.

Depressing, but not surprising

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 226]

wmw999

Considering how often you've watched it on CSI, Law & Order, Hawaii 5-0, and other shows like that, why is this surprising? All those times that they pull up a list of phone calls realtime that either the perpetrator or victim made, it's from this data.

Depressing, but not surprising

Wendy P.

Right!

Resistance is futile!

You must conform.

Privacy is an outdated prospect.

Privacy really hasn't been reality for a great many years now.

What you don't know goes on behind the scenes, doesn't hurt you, right?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[ianmdrennan 2]

Don't forget the battlecry "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about".

Performance Designs Factory Team

[turtlespeed 226]

ianmdrennan

Don't forget the battlecry "If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about".

I haven't forgotten.

Do you remember what we were told to think about the USSR during the cold war?

Remember how the KGB was viewed?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 62]

rushmc

Then lies about how data was collected

Quote

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

***Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.

The undated documents show that federal agents are trained to "recreate" the investigative trail to effectively cover up where the information originated, a practice that some experts say violates a defendant's Constitutional right to a fair trial. If defendants don't know how an investigation began, they cannot know to ask to review potential sources of exculpatory evidence - information that could reveal entrapment, mistakes or biased witnesses.

"I have never heard of anything like this at all," said Nancy Gertner, a Harvard Law School professor who served as a federal judge from 1994 to 2011. Gertner and other legal experts said the program sounds more troubling than recent disclosures that the National Security Agency has been collecting domestic phone records. The NSA effort is geared toward stopping terrorists; the DEA program targets common criminals, primarily drug dealers.

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-u-directs-agents-cover-program-used-investigate-091643729.html

I remember in junior high school, now called middle school, that America was a free country and the U.S.S.R. was not primarily because we did not spy on our citizens. Oh well!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I remember in junior high school, now called middle school, that America was a free country and the U.S.S.R. was not primarily because we did not spy on our citizens. Oh well!

And you were probably in junior high in the J. Edgar Hoover/McCarthy era. It wasn't true then, either. Can you imagine what J. Edgar wlould have done with today's technology?

- Dan G

[RonD1120 62]

DanG

Quote

I remember in junior high school, now called middle school, that America was a free country and the U.S.S.R. was not primarily because we did not spy on our citizens. Oh well!

And you were probably in junior high in the J. Edgar Hoover/McCarthy era. It wasn't true then, either. Can you imagine what J. Edgar wlould have done with today's technology?

I'll wager that BHO would not have ever been considered as a candidate for president.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

Quote

I'll wager that BHO would not have ever been considered as a candidate for president.

I'd wager you're right. What does that have to do with anything?

Or is everything bad in the history of the US now Obama's fault?

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 226]

DanG

Quote

I'll wager that BHO would not have ever been considered as a candidate for president.

I'd wager you're right. What does that have to do with anything?

Or is everything bad in the history of the US now Obama's fault?

Of course not. It's Bush's fault.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

You guys are the master of the dodge. Don't want to discuss a topic? Fall back on an old standby partisan jab. Very impressive.

My point was, this has been going on for a long time. The fault lies in a lot of places. If we want it to stop, we need to make it a priority issue. We also need to be prepared to accept that the risk of a terrorist attack will go up some small amount. I'm fine with that risk, but many people on both sides of the aisle are not.

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 226]

DanG

You guys are the master of the dodge. Don't want to discuss a topic? Fall back on an old standby partisan jab. Very impressive.

My point was, this has been going on for a long time. The fault lies in a lot of places. If we want it to stop, we need to make it a priority issue. We also need to be prepared to accept that the risk of a terrorist attack will go up some small amount. I'm fine with that risk, but many people on both sides of the aisle are not.

You, personally, do not have a choice in the matter.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[rushmc 23]

DanG

My point was, this has been going on for a long time. The fault lies in a lot of places. If we want it to stop, we need to make it a priority issue. We also need to be prepared to accept that the risk of a terrorist attack will go up some small amount. I'm fine with that risk, but many people on both sides of the aisle are not.

I absolutely agree with you here
This same point could be made for a lot of "but it makes you safer" arguments

the Constitution is circumvented in the name of safety

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

DanG

And you were probably in junior high in the J. Edgar Hoover/McCarthy era. It wasn't true then, either. Can you imagine what J. Edgar wlould have done with today's technology?

a lot of civil rights didn't get worked out until the 60s and into the 70s, after the Hoover/McCarthy era. We probably peaked in the late 80s and have now been regressing back towards those less pleasant times.

It shouldn't need to be said but just because the past wasn't as rosy as we'd like to think from 5th grade history, it doesn't mean we need to be accepting of the developments now.

[dmcoco84 5]

Quote

We also need to be prepared to accept that the risk of a terrorist attack will go up some small amount.

Absolute and Massive BS - Just Fact; not criticizing you.

ThinThread - William Binney - "We know how to catch bad guys, and we can do it without violating the 4th."

This is 100% Bush's Fault.

And its human nature for Obama to not only continue it, but because of his ideas (Communist Mentor), perfectly reasonable to expect him to expand it.

And God help us if Jeb Bush is next.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Absolute and Massive BS - Just Fact; not criticizing you.

It's not BS, it's true. If we shut the NSA down entirely, the risk of attack will go up. How much? No one knows, but it's silly to say that it won't.

I'm personally willing to accept that risk to increase freedom. Many are not. I find that sad, but it's true.

- Dan G

[dmcoco84 5]

DanG

Quote

Absolute and Massive BS - Just Fact; not criticizing you.

It's not BS, it's true. If we shut the NSA down entirely, the risk of attack will go up. How much? No one knows, but it's silly to say that it won't.

I'm personally willing to accept that risk to increase freedom. Many are not. I find that sad, but it's true.

NSA Program: ThinThread... 3 Million Dollars. Would have stopped 9/11/2001.

Do Some Homework... William Binney and Thomas Drake, to start.

[DanG 1]

Quote

NSA Program: ThinThread... 3 Million Dollars. Would have stopped 9/11/2001.

So you're saying that wiretapping US citizens, with privacy standards in place, would reduce terrorist attacks, but for some reason removing those privacy standards renders the same information useless against terrorists? That makes no sense.

- Dan G

[dmcoco84 5]

DanG

Quote

NSA Program: ThinThread... 3 Million Dollars. Would have stopped 9/11/2001.

So you're saying that wiretapping US citizens, with privacy standards in place, would reduce terrorist attacks, but for some reason removing those privacy standards renders the same information useless against terrorists? That makes no sense.

I have no clue what you are talking about... but so help me God, if this collection of words has something to do with Wikipedia, I'm gonna call you a crack baby.

[DanG 1]

It does have to do with wikipedia. Call me what you will.

If I've mischaracterized what you're trying to say, please correct me. I believe you're saying that ThinThread would have stopped 9/11, but the current programs wouldn't. Is that it? If not, you're going to have to try a couple complete sentences.

- Dan G

[dmcoco84 5]

DanG

It does have to do with wikipedia. Call me what you will.

If I've mischaracterized what you're trying to say, please correct me. I believe you're saying that ThinThread would have stopped 9/11, but the current programs wouldn't. Is that it? If not, you're going to have to try a couple complete sentences.

Yeah, ya need to go do some homework.

Maybe watch some videos of those two men speaking. They were even on Democracy Now!

This is about the capturing and storing of content.

[dmcoco84 5]

dmcoco84

***It does have to do with wikipedia. Call me what you will.

If I've mischaracterized what you're trying to say, please correct me. I believe you're saying that ThinThread would have stopped 9/11, but the current programs wouldn't. Is that it? If not, you're going to have to try a couple complete sentences.

Yeah, ya need to go do some homework.

Maybe watch some videos of those two men speaking. They were even on Democracy Now!

This is about the capturing and storing of content.

William Binney - "We know how to catch bad guys, and we can do it without violating the 4th."

[Kennedy 0]

DanG

Quote

NSA Program: ThinThread... 3 Million Dollars. Would have stopped 9/11/2001.

So you're saying that wiretapping US citizens, with privacy standards in place, would reduce terrorist attacks, but for some reason removing those privacy standards renders the same information useless against terrorists? That makes no sense.

I'm pretty sure he's saying the opposite, but don't let me speak for him. My understanding is that thin thread was up and running, and had built in privacy protections. Thin thread was shut down, and its replacement(s) including trailblazer were not ready, and do not have any privacy protections built in. I don't necessarily agree entirely, but I think he was saying that they shut down a viable program that could have warned us about 9/11 in favor of a theoretical program that did the same thing without privacy protections, and because it wasn't ready, it increased the chance for the attack to occur.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[DanG 1]

You're right, I realized that's what he meant. Of course, he can't just say that.

- Dan G