Palin’s Prediction Of ‘Death Panels’ Was Accurate

[RonD1120 62]

Of course, for those of us on the right it was common sense.

Quote

Back in 2009, during the early days of the national ObamaCare debate, Sarah Palin earned a “pants on fire” rating from PolitiFact for essentially using two words: “death panels”. PolitiFact went on to give her “death panels” statement the “lie of the year” award.

Fast forward to today, and it’s clear that PolitiFact was wrong. Don’t take our word for it, take the word of former Democratic Presidential candidate Howard “Screamin’” Dean:

http://downtrend.com/brian-carey/politifact-is-fiction-palins-prediction-of-death-panels-was-accurate/

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 23]

RonD1120

Of course, for those of us on the right it was common sense.

Quote

Back in 2009, during the early days of the national ObamaCare debate, Sarah Palin earned a “pants on fire” rating from PolitiFact for essentially using two words: “death panels”. PolitiFact went on to give her “death panels” statement the “lie of the year” award.

Fast forward to today, and it’s clear that PolitiFact was wrong. Don’t take our word for it, take the word of former Democratic Presidential candidate Howard “Screamin’” Dean:

http://downtrend.com/brian-carey/politifact-is-fiction-palins-prediction-of-death-panels-was-accurate/

For the most part, all of the bad predictions about this bad law are being shown to be true

Hell, even the major unions are now crying about the impacts on them

AHCA is bad law and it should be repealed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[funjumper101 15]

Not repealed. It needs to be FIXED, as in, undo the fucked up bullshit that the Rescumlicans forced into the bill.

The first place to start is to join the rest of the first world economies that do not permit FOR-PROFIT privately owned insurance companies from operating in the health care arena. Losing 1/3 or more of revenue to administrative costs and profit is stupid.

The second place to start is ONE claim form for all insurance claims.

Why are conservatards so stupid as to not see that the system is broken and needs fixing?

What are you advocating FOR? Repeal of Obamacare so that insurance companies can go back to denying coverage for "pre-existing conditions"? Repeal so that "post claims" underwriting is legal and acceptable?

What would conservatards do to FIX the broken medical system in the USA?
What would be a BETTER alternative to Obamacare?

The 'tards are against everything. What exactly do the 'tards advocate FOR, in terms of solving the problems that face the average citizen?

[rushmc 23]

funjumper101

Not repealed. It needs to be FIXED, as in, undo the fucked up bullshit that the Rescumlicans forced into the bill.

The first place to start is to join the rest of the first world economies that do not permit FOR-PROFIT privately owned insurance companies from operating in the health care arena. Losing 1/3 or more of revenue to administrative costs and profit is stupid.

The second place to start is ONE claim form for all insurance claims.

Why are conservatards so stupid as to not see that the system is broken and needs fixing?

What are you advocating FOR? Repeal of Obamacare so that insurance companies can go back to denying coverage for "pre-existing conditions"? Repeal so that "post claims" underwriting is legal and acceptable?

What would conservatards do to FIX the broken medical system in the USA?
What would be a BETTER alternative to Obamacare?

The 'tards are against everything. What exactly do the 'tards advocate FOR, in terms of solving the problems that face the average citizen?

rant #2 same day

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 226]

Amazon taught him well.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Skyrad 0]

Not sam thing as a 'death panel' at all

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RonD1120 62]

Skyrad

Not sam thing as a 'death panel' at all

Do you make that claim because you don't actually see the words "death panel?"

I worked in the clinical field where treatment was managed by HMO's and Medicare auditors. Length of stay and cost were limited by fiscal policy. The end result was that many needing longer treatment were denied and discharged. In the mental health field, were I was employed, that usually meant the patient had to attempt suicide or homicide before treatment could be resumed. Well, the actual wording was something like "becomes a threat to themselves or someone else."

When life and death decisions are based on fiscal policy the bottom is an objective panel can refuse treatment and you die. That is a death panel.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 2,150]

My fiancee is an MD who works on Humana's "Death Panel".

"Claim denied" is nothing new. Palin "predicted" something that has existed for decades.

Nothing to see here except the usual right wing scare tactic rant.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

Nonsense. I am a Clinician and have worked in hospitals for the last 16 years across three countries. There are plenty of times where there are a option of treatments against which the prime differentiator is not how well the drugs work but how much they cost, which is dictated by R&D, marketing and end user buy in. Just because healthcare costs are controlled does not mean that it automatically leads to a negative impact on patient outcomes.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jclalor 12]

Their will always be "death panels" ask your private insurance for a heart transplant when you have end stage cancer, Medicare has the exact same thing, Nothing is changing, it's just an easy way to scare the uneducated and Republicans.

It just goes to show the desperation, You guys have tried 40 times to repeal this, time to move on.

[turtlespeed 226]

Skyrad

Not sam thing as a 'death panel' at all

Howard Dean thinks they are.

He won't directly admit it, but logic prevails. If you are rationing treatment, you are deciding who is worth saving and who is not. That is definately something that the US government is not qualified or able to do.

Quote

Almost four years ago, Howard “YEAARRGGHH!!!” Dean said Sarah Palin’s “death panel” (“who lives and who dies” decisions caused by rationing) allegation was made up.
Dean even said at the time that Palin’s allegation could be an “incitement to violence.”
Fast forward to today. Dean, writing in a Wall Street Journal op-ed, draws closer to Palin’s warning:
That said, the law still has its flaws, and American lawmakers and citizens have both an opportunity and responsibility to fix them.
One major problem is the so-called Independent Payment Advisory Board. The IPAB is essentially a health-care rationing body. By setting doctor reimbursement rates for Medicare and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price, the IPAB will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.
There does have to be control of costs in our health-care system. However, rate setting—the essential mechanism of the IPAB—has a 40-year track record of failure. What ends up happening in these schemes (which many states including my home state of Vermont have implemented with virtually no long-term effect on costs) is that patients and physicians get aggravated because bureaucrats in either the private or public sector are making medical decisions without knowing the patients. Most important, once again, these kinds of schemes do not control costs. The medical system simply becomes more bureaucratic.
In 2009, Palin wrote that Obamacare rationing will lead to a panel deciding which people “are worthy of healthcare.” That’s not much different from what Dean wrote, though Howard will go to great lengths to never admit Palin had a point.

Steven Rattner Calls them what they are . . .

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WE need death panels.

Then he backs up . . .

Quote

Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, but unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name

and

Paul Krugman says, "So, what I said is that the eventual resolution of the deficit problem both will and should rely on “death panels and sales taxes”.

So . . . whether you LIKE the term "Death Panel" or not, the truth is that death is one of the things that IPAB will have authority to decide FOR YOU.

Just because it is an undesirable name, does not make it less true.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[lawrocket 3]

[Reply]What would conservatards do to FIX the broken medical system in the USA?
What would be a BETTER alternative to Obamacare?

[Skwrl 56]

RonD1120

. . . I worked in the clinical field where treatment was managed by HMO's and Medicare auditors. Length of stay and cost were limited by fiscal policy. The end result was that many needing longer treatment were denied and discharged. . . .

When life and death decisions are based on fiscal policy the bottom is an objective panel can refuse treatment and you die. That is a death panel.

So, what you're saying is the death panels already existed when Palin predicted them, right?

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[RonD1120 62]

Skyrad

Nonsense. I am a Clinician and have worked in hospitals for the last 16 years across three countries. There are plenty of times where there are a option of treatments against which the prime differentiator is not how well the drugs work but how much they cost, which is dictated by R&D, marketing and end user buy in. Just because healthcare costs are controlled does not mean that it automatically leads to a negative impact on patient outcomes.

Well, I guess time will tell. More and more folks are turning against Obamacare for a variety of reasons. We can't escape it. If we die, we die. This I know, at 71 YO my chances of adequate treatment are dwindling.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

jclalor

Their will always be "death panels" ask your private insurance for a heart transplant when you have end stage cancer, Medicare has the exact same thing, Nothing is changing, it's just an easy way to scare the uneducated and Republicans.

It just goes to show the desperation, You guys have tried 40 times to repeal this, time to move on.

See my post #14 above to Skyrad.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 62]

Skwrl

***. . . I worked in the clinical field where treatment was managed by HMO's and Medicare auditors. Length of stay and cost were limited by fiscal policy. The end result was that many needing longer treatment were denied and discharged. . . .

When life and death decisions are based on fiscal policy the bottom is an objective panel can refuse treatment and you die. That is a death panel.

So, what you're saying is the death panels already existed when Palin predicted them, right?

Now they are for everyone. The point of the article is that she did not lie. She was labeled unfairly.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Bolas 5]

RonD1120

******. . . I worked in the clinical field where treatment was managed by HMO's and Medicare auditors. Length of stay and cost were limited by fiscal policy. The end result was that many needing longer treatment were denied and discharged. . . .

When life and death decisions are based on fiscal policy the bottom is an objective panel can refuse treatment and you die. That is a death panel.

So, what you're saying is the death panels already existed when Palin predicted them, right?

Now they are for everyone. The point of the article is that she did not lie. She was labeled unfairly.

And with the government running them, the least of our concerns is being turned down for cost reasons.

Equal Opportunity/Quotas
Green Programs
Organizational Affiliation

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kallend 2,150]

RonD1120

******. . . I worked in the clinical field where treatment was managed by HMO's and Medicare auditors. Length of stay and cost were limited by fiscal policy. The end result was that many needing longer treatment were denied and discharged. . . .

When life and death decisions are based on fiscal policy the bottom is an objective panel can refuse treatment and you die. That is a death panel.

So, what you're saying is the death panels already existed when Palin predicted them, right?

Now they are for everyone. The point of the article is that she did not lie. She was labeled unfairly.

WELL, I would say that predicting something that already exists is misrepresentation with intent to deceive. From a reasonable point of view, that would be false witness.

And they aren't for everyone. The wealthy can still afford whatever care they want.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DanG 1]

Quote

So . . . whether you LIKE the term "Death Panel" or not, the truth is that death is one of the things that IPAB will have authority to decide FOR YOU.

Um no. The "death panels" do not look at individual cases and decide what treatments a patient gets. They set rates for treatments, and determine which treatments are prefered on a cost vs. effectiveness basis.

- Dan G

[kallend 2,150]

jclalor

, Nothing is changing, it's just an easy way to scare the uneducated and Republicans.

Redundant conjunction.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

RonD1120

***Nonsense. I am a Clinician and have worked in hospitals for the last 16 years across three countries. There are plenty of times where there are a option of treatments against which the prime differentiator is not how well the drugs work but how much they cost, which is dictated by R&D, marketing and end user buy in. Just because healthcare costs are controlled does not mean that it automatically leads to a negative impact on patient outcomes.

Well, I guess time will tell. More and more folks are turning against Obamacare for a variety of reasons. We can't escape it. If we die, we die. This I know, at 71 YO my chances of adequate treatment are dwindling.

Hi Ron, don't get me wrong here I'm not advocating Obamacare, I'm just saying its a massive of a leap to say Palin was right about death Panels based on the evidence cited in the article.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[RonD1120 62]

Skyrad

******Nonsense. I am a Clinician and have worked in hospitals for the last 16 years across three countries. There are plenty of times where there are a option of treatments against which the prime differentiator is not how well the drugs work but how much they cost, which is dictated by R&D, marketing and end user buy in. Just because healthcare costs are controlled does not mean that it automatically leads to a negative impact on patient outcomes.

Well, I guess time will tell. More and more folks are turning against Obamacare for a variety of reasons. We can't escape it. If we die, we die. This I know, at 71 YO my chances of adequate treatment are dwindling.

Hi Ron, don't get me wrong here I'm not advocating Obamacare, I'm just saying its a massive of a leap to say Palin was right about death Panels based on the evidence cited in the article.

No worries mate. You posts are always well reasoned. I am the flamboyant raucous one. Enjoy the rest of your night. My wife and I are off to Bible study.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Skyrad 0]

RonD1120

*********Nonsense. I am a Clinician and have worked in hospitals for the last 16 years across three countries. There are plenty of times where there are a option of treatments against which the prime differentiator is not how well the drugs work but how much they cost, which is dictated by R&D, marketing and end user buy in. Just because healthcare costs are controlled does not mean that it automatically leads to a negative impact on patient outcomes.

Well, I guess time will tell. More and more folks are turning against Obamacare for a variety of reasons. We can't escape it. If we die, we die. This I know, at 71 YO my chances of adequate treatment are dwindling.

Hi Ron, don't get me wrong here I'm not advocating Obamacare, I'm just saying its a massive of a leap to say Palin was right about death Panels based on the evidence cited in the article.

No worries mate. You posts are always well reasoned. I am the flamboyant raucous one. Enjoy the rest of your night. My wife and I are off to Bible study.

God bless Ron.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca