The Pitfalls of Partisanship

[NorrinRadd 0]

Democracy is under attack. It is slowly being drowned by this thing called partisanship.
A democracy is only effective if the voter base is willing and able to keep informed, objectively, on the issues that are important to each voter, and that their elected representatives are held responsible to the the people they represent... even the people who did not vote for them.
Partisanship denies both of these things.
When you commit yourself wholly to one political party, you essentially say to yourself that you are willing to accept anything the party tells you, whether it be the things that make the party seem great, or the things that make their opponents look bad. You are willing to accept their ideologies without question.
Also, by committing yourself to one political party or another, you are guaranteeing them your support. Which in turn means that you are no longer holding them accountable to you. If they can count on your support, they don't have to worry about losing your votes. And when the other parties know there is no way you will vote for them, they wont bother to listen to your issues. Now both parties are able to do whatever the heck they please.
Partisanship is also the quickest way to divide a population into bickering camps. There is no longer any dialogue, any desire to achieve consensus. It is now just two camps yelling at each other, insulting each other, telling each other what to do, trying to force their agendas on one another.
Partisans view politics in much the same way they view sports: They pick a team, root for it, buy its paraphernalia, stick with it no matter how badly they play, or what controversies its players might get up to.
It is time to stop identifying yourself as a 'lib' or a 'conservative' or a 'republican' or a 'democrat', or pro labour, or pro conservative, or what have you. Accept the most objective, non partisan sources of information. Use multiple sources.
Do not commit to a single party until it is time to mark your ballot. Insist that representatives work for your vote. Stop listening to the propaganda disseminated by the parties... it is all just so much BS that tries to get you to vote for them. Never listen to political promises.. study their work records. If you were a boss, would you hire someone based on what they promise they will do for you? Or will you hire them based on their past experience, recommendations, and education? When you vote for someone, you are in fact hiring them to do job.
Things need to change. Just my view point.
Just my feelings on the matter.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[champu 1]

I think "representatives" being held accountable to the people who did not vote for them is something most lacking. This is clear when a party retakes a majority in a particular house and you hear statements to the effect of, "This is a sign that the people want us to implement our entire wish list of crap we advertised while campaigning. This is our chance."

I think I've made clear my thoughts on the political parties' wish lists of crap...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3480031#3480031
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4174865#4174865
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4350537#4350537
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4449982#4449982

There's an old (though less old, apparently, than I originally thought) saying that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove. I wish all candidates would choose to do less when not doing something wouldn't lose them votes rather than always trying to do more in the hopes of adding more single issue voters than they scare away.

[rehmwa 2]

champu

I think "representatives" being held accountable to the people who did not vote for them is something most lacking. This is clear when a party retakes a majority in a particular house and you hear statements to the effect of, "This is a sign that the people want us to implement our entire wish list of crap we advertised while campaigning. This is our chance."

sure, how often do we see a 'win' of 52% over 48% getting called a "mandate of the voters"

a bunch of power hungry, spend happy, idiots

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[sfzombie13 324]

this is my fix for it, as posted in another thread:

the only real fix for it is a complete overhaul. we can leave the constitution in place as is, declare a 1 year period of martial law, do away with the electoral system(not needed in this day of instant communication), scrap the two party system, eliminate all lobbyists, and hold general elections. the only addition needed is the elimination of any financial gain from a politician while in office. all investments cease, all interest is frozen, and no additional investments can be made for two years after leaving office.

my original solution to the government problem called for a special session of congress where all elected officials in dc were in the same place at the same time and a couple of teams of seals were sent in to eliminate them all. then after the elections, the newly elected were warned that if they fucked up too bad, another "special session" would be called. that would do the trick. at least for a little while.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[ryoder 1,590]

sfzombie13

...scrap the two party system...

The "two party system" is not a part of our government.
It is a side-effect of our antiquated plurality voting system.

Duverger's law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger's_law

Types of voting systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_system

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[dmcoco84 5]

sfzombie13

this is my fix for it, as posted in another thread:

the only real fix for it is a complete overhaul. we can leave the constitution in place as is, declare a 1 year period of martial law, do away with the electoral system(not needed in this day of instant communication), scrap the two party system, eliminate all lobbyists, and hold general elections. the only addition needed is the elimination of any financial gain from a politician while in office. all investments cease, all interest is frozen, and no additional investments can be made for two years after leaving office.

my original solution to the government problem called for a special session of congress where all elected officials in dc were in the same place at the same time and a couple of teams of seals were sent in to eliminate them all. then after the elections, the newly elected were warned that if they fucked up too bad, another "special session" would be called. that would do the trick. at least for a little while.

Are you smoking crack...?

[dmcoco84 5]

NorrinRadd

Democracy is under attack. It is slowly being drowned by this thing called partisanship.
A democracy is only effective if the voter base is willing and able to keep informed, objectively, on the issues that are important to each voter, and that their elected representatives are held responsible to the the people they represent... even the people who did not vote for them.
Partisanship denies both of these things.
When you commit yourself wholly to one political party, you essentially say to yourself that you are willing to accept anything the party tells you, whether it be the things that make the party seem great, or the things that make their opponents look bad. You are willing to accept their ideologies without question.
Also, by committing yourself to one political party or another, you are guaranteeing them your support. Which in turn means that you are no longer holding them accountable to you. If they can count on your support, they don't have to worry about losing your votes. And when the other parties know there is no way you will vote for them, they wont bother to listen to your issues. Now both parties are able to do whatever the heck they please.
Partisanship is also the quickest way to divide a population into bickering camps. There is no longer any dialogue, any desire to achieve consensus. It is now just two camps yelling at each other, insulting each other, telling each other what to do, trying to force their agendas on one another.
Partisans view politics in much the same way they view sports: They pick a team, root for it, buy its paraphernalia, stick with it no matter how badly they play, or what controversies its players might get up to.
It is time to stop identifying yourself as a 'lib' or a 'conservative' or a 'republican' or a 'democrat', or pro labour, or pro conservative, or what have you. Accept the most objective, non partisan sources of information. Use multiple sources.
Do not commit to a single party until it is time to mark your ballot. Insist that representatives work for your vote. Stop listening to the propaganda disseminated by the parties... it is all just so much BS that tries to get you to vote for them. Never listen to political promises.. study their work records. If you were a boss, would you hire someone based on what they promise they will do for you? Or will you hire them based on their past experience, recommendations, and education? When you vote for someone, you are in fact hiring them to do job.
Things need to change. Just my view point.
Just my feelings on the matter.

Are these your words or someone else's?

[NorrinRadd 0]

dmcoco84

***Democracy is under attack. It is slowly being drowned by this thing called partisanship.
A democracy is only effective if the voter base is willing and able to keep informed, objectively, on the issues that are important to each voter, and that their elected representatives are held responsible to the the people they represent... even the people who did not vote for them.
Partisanship denies both of these things.
When you commit yourself wholly to one political party, you essentially say to yourself that you are willing to accept anything the party tells you, whether it be the things that make the party seem great, or the things that make their opponents look bad. You are willing to accept their ideologies without question.
Also, by committing yourself to one political party or another, you are guaranteeing them your support. Which in turn means that you are no longer holding them accountable to you. If they can count on your support, they don't have to worry about losing your votes. And when the other parties know there is no way you will vote for them, they wont bother to listen to your issues. Now both parties are able to do whatever the heck they please.
Partisanship is also the quickest way to divide a population into bickering camps. There is no longer any dialogue, any desire to achieve consensus. It is now just two camps yelling at each other, insulting each other, telling each other what to do, trying to force their agendas on one another.
Partisans view politics in much the same way they view sports: They pick a team, root for it, buy its paraphernalia, stick with it no matter how badly they play, or what controversies its players might get up to.
It is time to stop identifying yourself as a 'lib' or a 'conservative' or a 'republican' or a 'democrat', or pro labour, or pro conservative, or what have you. Accept the most objective, non partisan sources of information. Use multiple sources.
Do not commit to a single party until it is time to mark your ballot. Insist that representatives work for your vote. Stop listening to the propaganda disseminated by the parties... it is all just so much BS that tries to get you to vote for them. Never listen to political promises.. study their work records. If you were a boss, would you hire someone based on what they promise they will do for you? Or will you hire them based on their past experience, recommendations, and education? When you vote for someone, you are in fact hiring them to do job.
Things need to change. Just my view point.
Just my feelings on the matter.

Are these your words or someone else's?
Mine

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[jakee 1,610]

dmcoco84

***this is my fix for it, as posted in another thread:

the only real fix for it is a complete overhaul. we can leave the constitution in place as is, declare a 1 year period of martial law, do away with the electoral system(not needed in this day of instant communication), scrap the two party system, eliminate all lobbyists, and hold general elections. the only addition needed is the elimination of any financial gain from a politician while in office. all investments cease, all interest is frozen, and no additional investments can be made for two years after leaving office.

my original solution to the government problem called for a special session of congress where all elected officials in dc were in the same place at the same time and a couple of teams of seals were sent in to eliminate them all. then after the elections, the newly elected were warned that if they fucked up too bad, another "special session" would be called. that would do the trick. at least for a little while.

Are you smoking crack...?

I have no words...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 23]

jakee

******this is my fix for it, as posted in another thread:

the only real fix for it is a complete overhaul. we can leave the constitution in place as is, declare a 1 year period of martial law, do away with the electoral system(not needed in this day of instant communication), scrap the two party system, eliminate all lobbyists, and hold general elections. the only addition needed is the elimination of any financial gain from a politician while in office. all investments cease, all interest is frozen, and no additional investments can be made for two years after leaving office.

my original solution to the government problem called for a special session of congress where all elected officials in dc were in the same place at the same time and a couple of teams of seals were sent in to eliminate them all. then after the elections, the newly elected were warned that if they fucked up too bad, another "special session" would be called. that would do the trick. at least for a little while.

Are you smoking crack...?

I have no words...

Ahhh
the first step

admit you have a problem

Congrats

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,602]

I remember reading about the heavily partisan politics in some of the big US cities in the late 1800's/early 1900's (remember reading about Boss Tweed?). Mainly Democrats in those machine days, I seem to remember, but not really relevant (both parties have changed in the last 120 years).

In an increasingly complex society (we can recognize its complexity because of sophisticated communication technology that didn't used to exist), some people look for ways to simplify it, and either/or voting for ideas and associations work for them . Recognizing that things aren't always that simple is good.

However, sometimes small points really are better simplified -- the problem is that the all-or-nothing approach discourages that.

I'm not sure where I'm going, but that never stopped me before . I guess I kind of agree, but am not sure that there's a lot of hope in a country with a strong 2-party tradition, and a strong resistance to change in its political structures and traditions . Not to mention the increasing "simplification" that's inherent in a web-and-video based information delivery mechanism. Who reads the paper (which might actually have some analysis, as opposed to just the high points?).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[champu 1]

From the, "what can we do?" department I just thought about something along the lines of the gripe in my post earlier in the thread. I wonder what percentage of constituent correspondence representatives get from each of the following categories:

1) Letters from people in their party / who voted for them in support of something they are sponsoring or planning to vote for

2) Letters from people in their party / who voted for them expressing disapproval of something they are sponsoring or planning to vote for

3) Letters from people not in their party / who did not vote for them in support of something they are sponsoring or planning to vote for

4) Letters from people not in their party / who did not vote for them expressing disapproval of something they are sponsoring or planning to vote for

Which can you most readily see yourself writing and which can you see being the most effective?

[sfzombie13 324]

get real. letters are going to do nothing for anyone. look at how the govt is spinning the snowden thing out of control, they actually have most of the people believing them, or had until this latest revelation proves him right about what he could do.

the federalist papers did the trick before the revolution, right? they didn't actually have to fight anyone, did they? didn't old king george say we were right and just granted us freedom?

what a bunch of sheep. you write some letters, i'll make sure to prepare myself. and in 20 years, let me know how those letters went.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[sfzombie13 324]

do you have an idea that will actually work? if so, let me hear it. i'd love to be wrong about this one, however, history will back me on it. there are too many examples for me to start listing any of them here. and if you don't believe me, well it's still a free country in your head, if not anywhere else. for the time being.

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes