rehmwa 2 #151 July 1, 2013 hey. settle down. toasters are people too ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 380 #152 July 1, 2013 QuoteI suppose I shouldn't have tried to be so tongue in cheek, y'all just miss it.Might have something to do with the kind of cheek you've got your tongue stuck in. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #153 July 1, 2013 > Come on Huffy Post, give them at least a year married to issue a report... Actually they've been getting married for ten years now. But don't let that stop you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #154 July 1, 2013 Damn those facts - so inconvenient.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #155 July 1, 2013 Tagging on to you because, well, you're the boss. Question, what do you suppose would be the outcome for an Army Chaplain, Southern Baptist, who is asked to perform a marriage for two gay soldiers? Given the assumption that to do so would violate the canons of his faith and he is governed by federal law plus the UCMJ.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #156 July 2, 2013 RonD1120Tagging on to you because, well, you're the boss. Question, what do you suppose would be the outcome for an Army Chaplain, Southern Baptist, who is asked to perform a marriage for two gay soldiers? Given the assumption that to do so would violate the canons of his faith and he is governed by federal law plus the UCMJ. are military priests allowed to pick and choose who they administer to? This seems similar to the issue of pharmacists who refused to fill prescriptions for birth control as a matter of conscious. If no one is present that is willing to do it instead, that person must do his job. but the case of the military isn't a very compelling counterargument- soldiers give up many of their rights during their service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OHCHUTE 0 #157 July 2, 2013 billvon > Come on Huffy Post, give them at least a year married to issue a report... Actually they've been getting married for ten years now. But don't let that stop you. And as further reported, not by HP, that it's hard to learn exactly broken relationship rates. We do know however that relationships are even strengthened as in the PA case of a guy adopting his guy lover as his son to avoid higher death taxes. Imagine a gay dude having two dads. A real dad and a dad lover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #158 July 2, 2013 Let's face it, Turtle's argument is basically that some (unidentified) people (he's drawn back from actually saying he has a problem personally) have a right to be upset that a certain sub-category of people are now allowed to sit where they want on the bus whereas previously, they had to sit at the back. The bus ride for these people has now been devalued by the fact that this sub category of person can now sit amongst them and enjoy the same kind of bus ride as anyone else. They bought their season ticket on the basis that they wouldn't have to sit amongst these people who their religion considers to be sub-human/abominations - pick your flavour. Now, without any recourse to them, they suddenly find the goal posts have changed and these people from the subset now are permitted to enjoy the same kind of ride as this imaginary person once enjoyed on their own. Just because (1) the majority thinks it's only fair and (2) the constitution says all people are equal and we can't discriminate against any sub-set of the population and (3) separation of the State (tax/bus policy) and the Church (what a book says about how this sub-set of people are "Abominations unto Nuggan" (Pratchett reference)). I can understand why this unidentified person with a bus season ticket is now upset (feels harmed) by the "arbitrary" change that they consider "devalues" their bus experience. Where I depart from Turtle's argument however is that rather than feeling concern on their behalf, my response to this imaginary person who has such an issue is: "go fuck yourself, bigot". (To be clear - that's not to Turtle - he's openly clarified he doesn't personally have such issues but is merely concerned on the behalf of such individuals, should they exist). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #159 July 2, 2013 kelpdiver***Tagging on to you because, well, you're the boss. Question, what do you suppose would be the outcome for an Army Chaplain, Southern Baptist, who is asked to perform a marriage for two gay soldiers? Given the assumption that to do so would violate the canons of his faith and he is governed by federal law plus the UCMJ. are military priests allowed to pick and choose who they administer to? This seems similar to the issue of pharmacists who refused to fill prescriptions for birth control as a matter of conscious. If no one is present that is willing to do it instead, that person must do his job. but the case of the military isn't a very compelling counterargument- soldiers give up many of their rights during their service. First, priest is a title for Roman Catholic, Episcopalian and I think Anglican churches. A military Chaplain represents his denomination and if that denomination recognizes homosexuality as a sin, to perform a marriage ceremony would cause him to lose his license. Loss of his license would invalidate him as a Chaplain. Thus he would lose his career choice.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #160 July 2, 2013 Why won't you answer my question? For the third time fourth time of asking: How, exactly, could someone force a lack of morality on you, Turtle?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #161 July 2, 2013 Consider the military chaplain in my post above.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #162 July 2, 2013 A persons lack of morality would sure have an effect on me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #163 July 2, 2013 QuoteA military Chaplain represents his denomination and if that denomination recognizes homosexuality as a sin, to perform a marriage ceremony would cause him to lose his license. Loss of his license would invalidate him as a Chaplain. Thus he would lose his career choice. I think that is most likely untrue, but I'm too lazy to look into the military regulations regarding marriage ceremonies. I'm not sure a military chaplain would ever be required (not permitted, required) to perform any marriage ceremony. That's not what chaplains are for. I know they are capable of performing marriages, I just doubt that they would be required as part of their official duties. On the flip side, let's assume for the moment that chaplains are required to perform marriages when someone asks (which I still seriously doubt). Do you feel that military chaplains who's religion teaches that interracial marriages are an abomination should be excused from being required to perform those ceremonies? - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #164 July 2, 2013 What religion prevents Chaplains from performing inter-racial marriages? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #165 July 2, 2013 QuoteConsider the military chaplain in my post above. A couple of years ago, the Pentagon issued a directive that *allows* military chaplains to perform same-sex marriages if they choose to. They are not required to perform them, but they are permitted to.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #166 July 2, 2013 I have the same response, question, as Gravitymaster.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #167 July 2, 2013 Quote What religion prevents Chaplains from performing inter-racial marriages? Christianity http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/11/30/kentucky-church-no-interracial-couples-welcome/Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #168 July 2, 2013 labrysQuoteConsider the military chaplain in my post above. A couple of years ago, the Pentagon issued a directive that *allows* military chaplains to perform same-sex marriages if they choose to. They are not required to perform them, but they are permitted to. If he refuses to perform the marriage based on the rules of his denomination he is in violation of federal law. This hypothetical scenario is predicated on the assumption that two gay guys would attempt to force an issue on a particular denomination. What are the chances of two homosexuals doing that? I would guess a very high probability.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #169 July 2, 2013 labrys Quote What religion prevents Chaplains from performing inter-racial marriages? Christianity http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/11/30/kentucky-church-no-interracial-couples-welcome/ The Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church is a specific organization. That is not all of Christianity. Some Presbyterian and Methodist Churches accept homosexuality. That is not all of Christianity.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #170 July 2, 2013 QuoteIf he refuses to perform the marriage based on the rules of his denomination he is in violation of federal law. Right now that statement is contradicted by labrys. Neither one of you has provided a citation for your positions, but labrys certainly seems more credible. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #171 July 2, 2013 QuoteThe Gulnare Free Will Baptist Church is a specific organization. That is not all of Christianity. That's not the point, and you know it. The point is that some Christian denominations do not permit the marrying of a mixed race couple. Do you believe a minister ordained by such a denomination should be allowed to refuse to perform a mixed race marriage? This is still assuming for argument that chaplains are required to perform any marriage that someone asks them to. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #172 July 2, 2013 QuoteIf he refuses to perform the marriage based on the rules of his denomination he is in violation of federal law. And what law would that be? You do realize that many states have recognized same sex marriages for the last 5-10 years, right? The only thing that's changed recently is that the federal government is going to start recognizing those marriages.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #173 July 2, 2013 OK, then name a Chaplain that's from that particular denomination. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #174 July 2, 2013 DanGQuoteIf he refuses to perform the marriage based on the rules of his denomination he is in violation of federal law. Right now that statement is contradicted by labrys. Neither one of you has provided a citation for your positions, but labrys certainly seems more credible. Your claim has gone from weak to pathetic. You claimed a religion prevented inter-racial ,marriage. Now you are grasping onto one particular church in a small obscure town in Kentucky in an attempt to save face. Your statement was simply wrong. Man up and own it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #175 July 2, 2013 QuoteRight now that statement is contradicted by labrys. Neither one of you has provided a citation for your positions, but labrys certainly seems more credible. HR 4310, "Sec. 533. Protection of rights of conscience of members of the Armed Forces and chaplains of such members." HR4310 was signed into law 18 months ago by President Obama.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
