DOMA Struck Down

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Visitation? You certainly don't need a marriage or civil union to decide custody and visitation.

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what procedure hospitals follow to decide who to allow for visitation, or to make medical decisions for the patient if the patient is incapacitated? Do they make the spouse show a marriage certificate? I can't imagine they just take the word of whoever shows up at the hospital, too much potential for liability there.

Then there is the question of how many contracts would have to be drawn up to replace what is now covered by marriage. Would separate documents be needed to allow for visitation, for making medical decisions, and for making decisions with financial consequences for the patient? I can just imagine how well things will work when someone gets a call that their spouse has been injured and is in the trauma center, and before heading to the hospital that person has to round up copies of a whole bunch of different contracts.

It would actually be interesting to see a list of all the contracts that would have to be drawn up to replace a marriage license.

Don

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Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>Lets get them out of the insurance business, too.

Sure. Their function there should be to support a justice system to adjudicate disputes and an administrative system to require insurance in some cases (as in drivers) - not to provide insurance to people or companies.

Nor should it be a crime to not have medical insurance.

[billvon 3,111]

>Nor should it be a crime to not have medical insurance.

It's a crime not to have driver's insurance.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

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Nor should it be a crime to not have medical insurance.

Do you know anyone who has never required medical attention? Anyone who can offer a high level of assurance that they will never need medical care? Do you know anyone who skydives without medical insurance? If you know any such people, do you think they would be able to pay in full the entire cost of treating them following a serious accident or injury, within a reasonable period of time (say, 5 years, with interest accruing of course)?

What do you think should be done with people who choose not to purchase medical insurance, and who then run up expenses they cannot pay for?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>Nor should it be a crime to not have medical insurance.

It's a crime not to have driver's insurance.

Where I live, it's not illegal to drive without coverage for yourself. Only illegal not to have liability insurance that covers whomever you injure if you were at fault. Big difference.

It's also State Law, not Federal.

[Gravitymaster 0]

You support jailing poor people who can't afford insurance?

[billvon 3,111]

>Where I live, it's not illegal to drive without coverage for yourself. Only illegal not to
>have liability insurance that covers whomever you injure if you were at fault.

OK. So the law requires you to have insurance - and then you get insurance from a private company. If you don't you could end up in jail. Pretty good model.

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>Where I live, it's not illegal to drive without coverage for yourself. Only illegal not to
>have liability insurance that covers whomever you injure if you were at fault.

OK. So the law requires you to have insurance - and then you get insurance from a private company. If you don't you could end up in jail. Pretty good model.

Or choose not to drive. No such option with mandatory health insurance.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,111]

> No such option with mandatory health insurance.

I'd support an opt-out provision if you post a bond that will cover medical emergencies - again, similar to how car insurance requirements work.

[kallend 2,146]

Gravitymaster

***>Lets get them out of the insurance business, too.

Sure. Their function there should be to support a justice system to adjudicate disputes and an administrative system to require insurance in some cases (as in drivers) - not to provide insurance to people or companies.

Nor should it be a crime to not have medical insurance.

RIGHT, then we can stay cosy near the bottom of the list of developed countries.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 62]

I heard a senator sound bite on radio state that one of the quagmires in Obamacare is that you can wait till you need medical insurance and then purchase it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 3,111]

>I heard a senator sound bite on radio state that one of the quagmires in Obamacare is
>that you can wait till you need medical insurance and then purchase it.

True, if you want to pay the fines. Cheaper to just get insurance. But if you really want to not have insurance, you don't have to get it.

[Bolas 5]

billvon

> No such option with mandatory health insurance.

I'd support an opt-out provision if you post a bond that will cover medical emergencies - again, similar to how car insurance requirements work.

People shouldn't have to opt-out of buying it.

Is having health insurance a good idea? Yes. Should it be mandatory? No.

Repeal EMTALA. Citizens and legal immigrants that are unable to afford healthcare insurance get basic coverage by Medicaid. Everyone else has healthcare insurance or pays out of pocket.

Oh and if someone has fancy electronics and a nice car, they don't qualify for Medicaid, regardless of what their W-2 or 1099 states.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>Where I live, it's not illegal to drive without coverage for yourself. Only illegal not to
>have liability insurance that covers whomever you injure if you were at fault.

OK. So the law requires you to have insurance - and then you get insurance from a private company. If you don't you could end up in jail. Pretty good model.

Nope, the State requires you to purchase an insurance policy that allows you to drive without insurance. If you don't purchase that, they suspend your drivers license and tags. You are also required to sign a legal document when you register a vehicle declaring the vehicle is either insured or that you have purchased the uninsured motorist insurance. If you are caught, you do not go to jail because of no insurance, you go to jail because you swore that you did have it.

Again, automobile insurance requirements are State laws, not Federal

[Gravitymaster 0]

I also find it interesting that you support a womans right to do what she wants with her own body, but reject peoples right to make their own decisions regarding healthcare.

What else do you support the government forcing people to do? How bout forcing people to get a College degree? Wouldn't you agree forcing everyone to have a higher education would be beneficial to society in general? Doesn't a less literate citizen affect all of us by creating more citizen dependent on government instead of educated and more capable of providing for themselves?

[DanG 1]

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. Everyone else has healthcare insurance or pays out of pocket

And if they can't pay out of pocket we just let them die on the hospital steps? Sounds good for some dystopian sci-fi flick, but it'll never happen in the real world.

- Dan G

[Gravitymaster 0]

DanG

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. Everyone else has healthcare insurance or pays out of pocket

And if they can't pay out of pocket we just let them die on the hospital steps? Sounds good for some dystopian sci-fi flick, but it'll never happen in the real world.

If they can't pay for it now, how do you expect them to pay or Obamacare? Did you really think Obamacare would be less expensive?

[DanG 1]

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they can't pay for it now, how do you expect them to pay or Obamacare? Did you really think Obamacare would be less expensive?

Even you must realize there's a difference between paying a few hundred dollars a month for health insurance, and paying a few hundred thousand out of pocket when you get seriously injured.

- Dan G

[Bolas 5]

DanG

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. Everyone else has healthcare insurance or pays out of pocket

And if they can't pay out of pocket we just let them die on the hospital steps? Sounds good for some dystopian sci-fi flick, but it'll never happen in the real world.

Sad we've gotten to the point that personal responsibility and accountability is considered dystopian sci-fi.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[DanG 1]

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Sad we've gotten to the point that personal responsibility and accountability is considered dystopian sci-fi.

Nice job twisting what I said. What's dystopian sci-fi is the richest nation in the history of the world contemplating withholding life saving medical care because some people lack personal responsibility. What about children? If their parents are fuck-ups do we withhold medicine from them, too? Like I said, it'll never happen. I don't particularly like the way the ACA ended up from the theoretical standpoint of "right vs. wrong" but from a practical standpoint, it makes sense.

- Dan G

[Gravitymaster 0]

DanG

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they can't pay for it now, how do you expect them to pay or Obamacare? Did you really think Obamacare would be less expensive?

Even you must realize there's a difference between paying a few hundred dollars a month for health insurance, and paying a few hundred thousand out of pocket when you get seriously injured.

Even you can understand that if someone can't afford a few hundred a month right now, that they won't be able to afford a few hundred a month with Obamacare. So please explain what was accomplished. The rest of us are still going to be paying for those who can't and if you have any intellectual honesty, you know it too.

[Bolas 5]

DanG

the richest nation in the history of the world

Dude, that ship sailed years ago. Tax loopholes, handouts, and the entitlement generation(s) saw to that.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 3,111]

>Nope, the State requires you to purchase an insurance policy that allows you to drive without insurance.

Interesting claim.

[billvon 3,111]

>I also find it interesting that you support a womans right to do what she wants with
>her own body, but reject peoples right to make their own decisions regarding
>healthcare.

You can make any decision you like about your healthcare. You just cannot neglect it completely. Your right to do what you want ends when you demand other people pay for it. Have a plan to pay for it? Then do whatever you want.

Women can do what they want with their bodies. They cannot completely neglect them during pregnancy. A woman can go to jail, for example, for doing cocaine while she is pregnant.

>What else do you support the government forcing people to do?

Pay taxes. Respect laws. Serve on juries. Serve in the military in time of national emergency.

>How bout forcing people to get a College degree?

Nope. Not worth it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

billvon

>Nope, the State requires you to purchase an insurance policy that allows you to drive without insurance.

Interesting claim.

http://dui.drivinglaws.org/virginia-sr22.php

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To receive a license plate and tags in the State of Virginia you are required to carry a minimum amount of vehicle liability insurance. In lieu of this insurance you may still receive plates and tags if you pay the $500 uninsured vehicle fee. The uninsured vehicle fee does not provide insurance for the driver, but allows the operation of a motor vehicle at your own risk.

So to continue to claim that insurance is required to drive a car is not true.