LyraM45 0 #251 July 3, 2013 Quote Those attacking you today have been attacking me for four years now. And actually, you took the heat off me today and I was trying to opt out of this BS. Yes you're still replying and playing ball......Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #252 July 3, 2013 >The point I am trying to make is that it never should have been an issue to begin with. >Same sex couples never should have been denied any rights. You are right. It never should have been an issue to begin with. Unfortunately, it was. Legally married gays were denied the same Federal benefits that straight couples enjoy. That was a problem. It has now been fixed; it is no longer a problem. They are now not denied those benefits. Your desire for it not to be an issue has been implemented by the Supreme Court. However, in many states gays still cannot marry. Can we assume that you hope that injustice will soon be fixed as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #253 July 3, 2013 billvon To put it another way, Matthew Shepard was persecuted. Rush Limbaugh has not been - despite his claims to the contrary. but he was nearly prosecuted for his drug addiction. Poor white man! Given a deal and no real punishment. People have done far less and found themselves in prison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #254 July 3, 2013 jakee ****** Quote Then I chose to chase the ladies. And, yes, I thought about it, and it wasn't at all appealing to me. How do you not get this?You chose to be straight because women were appealing and men weren't. So gay guys chose to be gay because men were appealing and women weren't. Are you seeing the issue here? How many times do I have to say I don't have an issue with it???? Just because it wasn't my choice, and I don't agree with some peoples opinion about it, you are creating an issue that doesn't exist. THIS is precisely what I am talking about, some people making an issue out of something that isn't there. WTF are you talking about? I was pointing out that your argument that being gay is a choice is complete bollocks, nothing else (in the post you just replied to). You said you chose to be straight because the idea of playing the pink oboe wasn't appealing. So how do you figure that it was a choice? Can you focus on replying directly to that, or are you going to veer off on a tengent again? I will attempt to focus a little bit tighter for you. Try to follow me on this one. For example: I have a drive to protect my home and my family. It is my nature. However, when some scumbag breaks into my house, I make a CHOICE to kill the sum bitch or simply detain him. If I had no control over my NATURE, then I would, like an animal, destroy the person who is threatening me. However, we are human, we have the choice to do things or not do things. I chose to wipe my ass after I shit. I chose to not kill people that piss me off. I chose to be straight, when I have the option to be gay if I wanted to. Just because I chose when I was young, doesn't mean I might not change my mind someday right? It is my opinion that being gay is a choice. Obviously your opinion is that it is not a choice, but predetermined by birth right? Well, that is your opinion, and I disagree with it, but I respect it. So respect my opinion. By telling me my opinion is wrong, you are the one who is close minded and bigoted. I only said that it was my opinion, never that it was right. You are wrong for telling me my opinion is wrong.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 62 #255 July 3, 2013 LyraM45Quote Those attacking you today have been attacking me for four years now. And actually, you took the heat off me today and I was trying to opt out of this BS. Yes you're still replying and playing ball...... Just trying to offer support and help to my brother.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,571 #256 July 3, 2013 Anyone who's given 5 minutes of thought to their opinions should be able to answer simple questions on the reasons they hold them. It's not my fault that scratching the surface of your beliefs reveals absolutely nothing underneath. Have fun in Wonderland.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #257 July 3, 2013 > However, when some scumbag breaks into my house, I make a CHOICE to kill the >sum bitch or simply detain him. Why not just choose to not have your house be broken into? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #258 July 3, 2013 LyraM45QuoteYes, and they are flamboyant, fly rainbow flags, have stickers on their cars. They are drawing attention to the fact that they are gay. And I will repeat, I don't care. What if a straight person flew a special flag? And they are wonderful people and I fly with them and jump with them and don't care what they do. Do you equally hate all of those christians with their bumper stickers, and their "1 man plus 1 woman = marriage" stickers. And what about those fish emblems? Those uppity christians drawing attention to themselves. Damn them!!! Where did I say I hated them for this behavior? Might not agree with it, but never once did I say I hated them did I?Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,571 #259 July 3, 2013 Quote I chose to be straight, when I have the option to be gay if I wanted to. But you just said you don't want to. You said you chose women because men weren't appealing. When did you choose not to find cock appealing? QuoteSo respect my opinion. By telling me my opinion is wrong, you are the one who is close minded and bigoted. I only said that it was my opinion, never that it was right. You are wrong for telling me my opinion is wrong. If I wanted to play that stupid game I would tell you that it's my opinion that your opinion is wrong and that telling me my opinion is wrong makes you close minded, bigoted and a hypocrite for being exactly what you reproach me for being. But I won't. Instead, I'll just repeat that your opinion is wrong because you contradict yourself. You say you chose who to like, but that you chose that way because you already knew who you liked. I can't figure out whether it's more hilarious or more disturbing that you refuse to let yourself address that point.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #260 July 3, 2013 twatterpilot I chose to wipe my ass after I shit. I chose to not kill people that piss me off. I chose to be straight, when I have the option to be gay if I wanted to. Just because I chose when I was young, doesn't mean I might not change my mind someday right? Did you choose to find women attractive to you? Your prior words indicate otherwise. The 'choice' was made for you (ie, biology, or if you wish to argue further, by environment). You did not choose to be straight, unless you want to suggest that gays choose to ignore their urges for boobies and go strictly dickly. Quote It is my opinion that being gay is a choice. Obviously your opinion is that it is not a choice, but predetermined by birth right? Well, that is your opinion, and I disagree with it, but I respect it. So respect my opinion. By telling me my opinion is wrong, you are the one who is close minded and bigoted. I only said that it was my opinion, never that it was right. You are wrong for telling me my opinion is wrong. The difference is, and I already tried to point this out to you, his opinion is backed by science. Your's is backed by wishful thinking. So yes, unless you're going to offer up more - either support your belief, or argue that the biological evidence is false - YOUR OPINION is factually wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #261 July 3, 2013 Sorry billvon >And I actually, morally, don't believe that gays should be denied anything that >straight people have, it never should have gone as far as it did. I supported Prop 8 . . . You're contradicting yourself here. That's like saying "I support private gun ownership, and I also support banning guns in California." mistype, scratch that, reverse it. I supported the overturning of Prop 8. My bad.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #262 July 3, 2013 billvon> However, when some scumbag breaks into my house, I make a CHOICE to kill the >sum bitch or simply detain him. Why not just choose to not have your house be broken into? I did, I moved to an area of lower crime. BUT, I cannot control the behavior of others. However, I can control the outcome of that behavior when it involves me.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #263 July 3, 2013 Show me the science that is undisputed that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a gene that makes a person homosexual. Prove to me that homosexuality is defined by our inherent nature, when by the very science of DNA cannot be passed down by two gay men who cannot reproduce without outside influence. You are born left handed or right handed by nature. You can train your body to be ambidextrous. I am right handed by nature, I can fly with both hands, by CHOICE. Does that make me right handed or left handed? Wow, y'all love to attack someone who doesn't agree with you huh? Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #264 July 3, 2013 QuoteYou are born left handed or right handed by nature. You can train your body to be ambidextrous. Show me a gene that is indisputable that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a gene that allows people to train themselves to be ambidextrous. Otherwise stated... you're saying that there's a left handed gene and a right handed gene... but that anyone with either gene can go both ways with training. It's impossible for there to also be a gene that determines whether or not someone can chose... ? You're starting to sound like a low level congressman who adopts a wide stance in public bathrooms... know what I mean?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #265 July 3, 2013 labrysQuoteYou are born left handed or right handed by nature. You can train your body to be ambidextrous. Show me a gene that is indisputable that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a gene that allows people to train themselves to be ambidextrous. There isn't. Because it is a choice. It is simple muscle memory. However, handedness can be traced to a variety of factors ranging from genealogy to positioning of the fetus in-utero during the third trimester. There is science that backs that. I am not disputing the fact that nature may play a role in sexuality. I am just not sure the science is sound. Show me the science, and I will change my opinion.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #266 July 3, 2013 QuoteHowever, handedness can be traced to a variety of factors ranging from genealogy to positioning of the fetus in-utero during the third trimester. There is science that backs that. I'd love to see some evidence of thatOwned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #267 July 3, 2013 twatterpilotShow me the science that is undisputed that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a gene that makes a person homosexual. is your rebuttal that you need 100% proof? That's always an out, but not an honest one. You can choose to deny evolution that way as well. Quote Prove to me that homosexuality is defined by our inherent nature, when by the very science of DNA cannot be passed down by two gay men who cannot reproduce without outside influence. many genetic driven characteristics persist despite no reproductive path. Take the growing prevalence of Down's. Mutations or recessive genes are two methods. The fact that a certain number of homosexuals conceive children is another. This is high school biology level - the people doing the research are at a substantially higher level. Their research will not be dismissed by a trivial "but they don't have babies so they must go extinct" level of science. If you believe there are certainly physical forms that are strongly associated with gay men (say twinks or bears), that's another endorsement of generic characteristics. Quote Wow, y'all love to attack someone who doesn't agree with you huh? it's the intellectual inconsistencies and laziness that people can't resist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #268 July 3, 2013 labrysQuoteHowever, handedness can be traced to a variety of factors ranging from genealogy to positioning of the fetus in-utero during the third trimester. There is science that backs that. I'd love to see some evidence of that http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13576500600761056#.UdN7GZxlW0Y http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511576744&cid=CBO9780511576744A013 While genetic science is not perfect, it supports a vast majority of the current scientific hypotheses.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #269 July 3, 2013 >BUT, I cannot control the behavior of others. Agreed! Some things are out of your control. Being broken into is one thing. Your sexual orientation is another. > However, I can control the outcome of that behavior when it involves me. You definitely could. You could have, for example, decided never to have sex with women. That wouldn't make you gay. Likewise, if you had been born gay, you could decide never to have sex with men. That wouldn't make you straight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #270 July 3, 2013 kelpdiver***Show me the science that is undisputed that PROVES beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a gene that makes a person homosexual. is your rebuttal that you need 100% proof? That's always an out, but not an honest one. You can choose to deny evolution that way as well. I don't deny evolution in the least bit, quite support it on the contrary. Probably more than most do. I was using my desire for someone to show me 100% proof as an example of the ridiculousness of a purely one sided opinion. Quote Prove to me that homosexuality is defined by our inherent nature, when by the very science of DNA cannot be passed down by two gay men who cannot reproduce without outside influence. many genetic driven characteristics persist despite no reproductive path. Take the growing prevalence of Down's. I think that you will find that the increase in the prevalence of Down's may have something to do with the age of the mother. There is a very strong correlation in the data that shows when the mother is over 35 years old, the occurrence is far greater. "The CDC estimates that about 1 of every 691 babies born in the United States each year is born with Down syndrome.[8] Each year about 6,000 babies in the United States are born with this condition. Approximately 95% of these are trisomy 21. Maternal age influences the chances of conceiving a baby with Down syndrome. At maternal age 20 to 24, the probability is one in 1562; at age 35 to 39 the probability is one in 214, and above age 45 the probability is one in 19." While not the only reason, there is strong correlation to maternal age. Now, that having been said, when the population grows, the chances go up, and with couples making the choice to conceive later in life, this is a risk factor. Edit to clarify, While about 80% of babies born with Down's are born to mothers under age 35, it doesn't take many to be born to older moms, to skew the data. I would bet that a fair number of those are lost to miscarriage as well. Mutations or recessive genes are two methods. The fact that a certain number of homosexuals conceive children is another. This is high school biology level - the people doing the research are at a substantially higher level. Their research will not be dismissed by a trivial "but they don't have babies so they must go extinct" level of science. If the theory that homosexuals have no choice in their orientation, then why would any of them reproduce? Don't they make the choice to mate with a member of the opposite sex? If you believe there are certainly physical forms that are strongly associated with gay men (say twinks or bears), that's another endorsement of generic characteristics. The argument that homosexuality can only be attributed to one cause is the point that I was trying to make. Simply put, some people think that sexual PREFERENCE is ONLY a choice. Some people think that homosexuality is ONLY nature and those that are homosexual have NO choice in the matter. I think that any extreme is a bad thing. I concede that while my belief is that is that homosexuality is largely based on nurture and individual choice, I agree that the possibility exists that genetics MIGHT play a part in that persons desires. Whereas, by the sounds of things in this thread, it appears that no one is willing to entertain another possible view point about what determines someones sexuality. It seems it is either the gay way or the wrong way. Quote Wow, y'all love to attack someone who doesn't agree with you huh? it's the intellectual inconsistencies and laziness that people can't resist.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #271 July 3, 2013 billvon>BUT, I cannot control the behavior of others. Agreed! Some things are out of your control. Being broken into is one thing. Your sexual orientation is another. > However, I can control the outcome of that behavior when it involves me. I should have clarified, sorry, I can control the outcome of the behavior of the person who broke into my house, as it involves me, by shooting them or detaining them. BUT, I agree with you anyway. You can control your impulses and desires and make a conscious decision to not act on that impulse. You definitely could. You could have, for example, decided never to have sex with women. That wouldn't make you gay. Nope, it makes you celibate. Likewise, if you had been born gay, you could decide never to have sex with men. That wouldn't make you straight. See above response. What does it make you if you are "born gay" and chose to only sleep with members of the opposite sex? A hypocrite? Or???Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #272 July 3, 2013 >Nope, it makes you celibate. It also does not make you gay. Being gay or straight is not a decision you make on who to sleep with; it is programming you come with to make you want to do one of those two things. In other words, there are not three orientations (gay, straight or celibate) there are two orientation axes (gay to straight) and two decision axes (celibate to promiscuous.) You could also add "asexual" to that I guess - someone who is not attracted to anyone. >What does it make you if you are "born gay" and chose to only sleep with members of the opposite sex? Scared? There was a time you could be arrested and imprisoned for not being "straight." That's a powerful deterrent. Even today gays face ridicule and discrimination when they 'come out of the closet' although fortunately that has been diminishing with time. >Whereas, by the sounds of things in this thread, it appears that no one is willing to >entertain another possible view point about what determines someones sexuality. Imagine the following. Someone who is not a skydiver or a pilot tells you that a recent Otter stall/spin crash was caused because the pilot was not strong enough or brave enough to pull back hard enough on the yoke to avoid the impending crash. You reply to him and tell him (rightly) he's an idiot. He replies "geez, from the people here it sounds like no one is willing to entertain anything other than the official viewpoint! I guess it's either the Twatterway or the highway. It's all political correctness I tell ya." Would you take his suggestion to heart? Or would you think "this guy isn't a pilot or a skydiver and he clearly doesn't understand flying, so I'm not going to heed his suggestion?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnay 0 #273 July 3, 2013 twatterpilot I am a middle aged, married, straight, childless, white man. I am persecuted more than any other group on this planet. You should make late night infomercials to take donations that help these poor poor first-world heterosexual white males. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #274 July 3, 2013 billvon>Nope, it makes you celibate. It also does not make you gay. Being gay or straight is not a decision you make on who to sleep with; it is programming you come with to make you want to do one of those two things. Never said it made you gay. Just celibate. I was actually agreeing with you. In other words, there are not three orientations (gay, straight or celibate) there are two orientation axes (gay to straight) and two decision axes (celibate to promiscuous.) You could also add "asexual" to that I guess - someone who is not attracted to anyone. I was watching one of the history/discovery type channels and the program was about sexuality. One of the women on the show from England was being interviewed, and she had a boyfriend, but chose to never have sex. She was identified as asexual. I guess, if that is asexual, then celibacy is not even having a relationship with any person, much like a Catholic Priest takes a vow of celibacy. (obviously some don't behave that way) >What does it make you if you are "born gay" and chose to only sleep with members of the opposite sex? Scared? There was a time you could be arrested and imprisoned for not being "straight." That's a powerful deterrent. Even today gays face ridicule and discrimination when they 'come out of the closet' although fortunately that has been diminishing with time. Why does it have to be fear? Why can't it just be a choice? That is the point I am trying to make here. >Whereas, by the sounds of things in this thread, it appears that no one is willing to >entertain another possible view point about what determines someones sexuality. Imagine the following. Someone who is not a skydiver or a pilot tells you that a recent Otter stall/spin crash was caused because the pilot was not strong enough or brave enough to pull back hard enough on the yoke to avoid the impending crash. You reply to him and tell him (rightly) he's an idiot. He replies "geez, from the people here it sounds like no one is willing to entertain anything other than the official viewpoint! I guess it's either the Twatterway or the highway. It's all political correctness I tell ya." Nope, I would tell that person the pilot wasn't smart or skilled enough to prevent the stall-spin to begin with. He made the wrong choice. On another angle of that, after a mass shooting event, the media hysteria and knee jerk reaction to disarm the whole country because of the actions of one person. It's the gun control way or no way. Would you take his suggestion to heart? Or would you think "this guy isn't a pilot or a skydiver and he clearly doesn't understand flying, so I'm not going to heed his suggestion?"Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twatterpilot 0 #275 July 3, 2013 skinnay *** I am a middle aged, married, straight, childless, white man. I am persecuted more than any other group on this planet. You should make late night infomercials to take donations that help these poor poor first-world heterosexual white males. Really? That is what you come back with? Is that what you took away from that statement? And y'all think I am close minded? Let's start slinging shit...yeah if that works for you, knock yourself out.Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8 Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land Private Glider Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
