DOMA Struck Down

[skinnay 0]

RonD1120

Oh fear, I fear very little in life. I have the victory.

Yay, you won life! *hands Ron a cookie*

[kelpdiver 2]

RonD1120

I kind of lost interest at this point because facts are tiresome.

Winning like Charlie Sheen, Ron.

[Gravitymaster 0]

jakee

Quote

If he failed to do it, another one would.

So there's no problem.
So why the fuck are we talking about military chaplains?

You should really stop posting in a thread if you can't follow the flow of the conversation.

[GeorgiaDon 379]

Quote

I kind of lost interest at this point because you do not correctly grasp the meaning of the NT Scripture in Ephesians. That's OK, very few in this venue do.

And it goes without saying that this so-called "meaning" is given to you. How very convenient.

On the other hand, you do not correctly grasp the meaning of the First Amendment, indeed you have not a fucking clue about what the USA stands for. There is not one shred of freedom, if we are all to be forced by law to conform to your antediluvian views. Your utopia is nothing but a Christian version of Sharia law. Your America would hardly differ from Saudi Arabia, except in trivial detail such as the name you choose to call your "God".

Real Americans know that they are free only when the government leaves everybody free to practice their faith. Real Americans celebrate when all people can enjoy the freedom to follow their own path. Real Americans understand that there is no constitutional guarantee that they will not be offended, because then their own choices will be limited lest some other person be offended.

Lots of people do things that I think are stupid, or wasteful, or sometimes offensive. As long as they are not preventing me from doing what I want, though, I have no business using the law to obstruct them. The "Golden Rule" (the "do unto others" rule, not the "them that has the gold makes the rules" rule) is an excellent guide.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[twatterpilot 0]

Here is your savior in all his glory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6K9dS9wl7U

Personally I don't care about what the gays do. I'm not gay. However, what I do care about is their demand for special treatment. 1 or 2 of them face some kind of criticism or some type of perceived persecution and suddenly it is a global propaganda event.

NO one cares who the heck you screw. Live life like a normal productive member of society and no one will care what you do in your bedroom.

Why are the gays making such a big friggin deal out of this? Just so they can call their version of a civil union a marriage?
It is just a f**king word!!!! Get over yourselves. Everyone on earth is entitled to an opinion. Some people don't agree with your lifestyle. So you call them bigots and homophobes and other nasty names. You call it freedom of speech. When a straight person calls a gay man a fag, then it is a hate speech. Or if a gay guy kills a straight guy, normal crime. Straight guy kills gay guy, hate crime. Media sensation.

You can't have equality while demanding special treatment. Then it is not equality. Civil union not a cool enough word for you? It is just a damn word, what f**king difference does it make?

Get over yourselves. Your savior Obummer just flipped flopped for you. Proud of him? He is either lying now or was lying then.

Which is it? Was he lying before he was spying on you or after?

I got a question. Would the homosexual community be offended if I demanded that I, as a straight person, be included in all their special events? Demanded that a "Straight Pride Parade" be held? Or, heaven forbid, a White Pride Month, or Straight Pride Month? Or Straight Awareness education be mandatory in schools?

I repeat:

You cannot have "equality" when demanding any form of special treatment.

Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8
Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land
Private Glider

[Stumpy 284]

Well that escalated quickly.

twatterpilot

Why are the gays making such a big friggin deal out of this? Just so they can call their version of a civil union a marriage?
It is just a f**king word!!!!

Err.... no.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 3,089]

> However, what I do care about is their demand for special treatment.

Actually the big fuss was that gays were being singled out for special treatment (denial of marriage benefits.) The recent Supreme Court decision said "no more special treatment" - which is good for everyone involved.

>Why are the gays making such a big friggin deal out of this?

They're not any more. The discrimination against them - at least as a result of DOMA - has ended.

>It is just a f**king word!

No, it's not. There were several thousand federal benefits/rights/privileges that were denied to them based on their sexual orientation.

> Some people don't agree with your lifestyle. So you call them bigots and
>homophobes and other nasty names.

You can disagree with someone's lifestyle and not be a bigot. Not everyone is gay (or a skydiver, or a singer, or black, or handicapped or whatever.) Not everyone WANTS to be gay, or a skydiver, or black. They might prefer something else.

However, if you want the rights that you have withheld from other people because you find those people disgusting - that gets into bigot territory.

>Would the homosexual community be offended if I demanded that I, as a straight
>person, be included in all their special events? Demanded that a "Straight Pride
>Parade" be held?

I am sure some gay group somewhere would be offended, just as "family values" groups are offended by gays. Too bad, so sad. You have a right to equality under the law; you do not have the right to not be offended.

>You cannot have "equality" when demanding any form of special treatment.

Agreed. Fortunately the Supreme Court just ended that special treatment, at least with regards to DOMA. You should be happy.

[RonD1120 62]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

I kind of lost interest at this point because you do not correctly grasp the meaning of the NT Scripture in Ephesians. That's OK, very few in this venue do.

And it goes without saying that this so-called "meaning" is given to you. How very convenient.

On the other hand, you do not correctly grasp the meaning of the First Amendment, indeed you have not a fucking clue about what the USA stands for. There is not one shred of freedom, if we are all to be forced by law to conform to your antediluvian views. Your utopia is nothing but a Christian version of Sharia law. Your America would hardly differ from Saudi Arabia, except in trivial detail such as the name you choose to call your "God".

Real Americans know that they are free only when the government leaves everybody free to practice their faith. Real Americans celebrate when all people can enjoy the freedom to follow their own path. Real Americans understand that there is no constitutional guarantee that they will not be offended, because then their own choices will be limited lest some other person be offended.

Lots of people do things that I think are stupid, or wasteful, or sometimes offensive. As long as they are not preventing me from doing what I want, though, I have no business using the law to obstruct them. The "Golden Rule" (the "do unto others" rule, not the "them that has the gold makes the rules" rule) is an excellent guide.

Don

Wow, liberal scat. Did I touch a nerve? Calm down. I stated several posts before you I wasn't going to talk about the subject anymore. You can't seem to let that go.

Lord, have mercy. He be such an excitable boy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kelpdiver 2]

twatterpilot

]
Personally I don't care about what the gays do. I'm not gay. However, what I do care about is their demand for special treatment. 1 or 2 of them face some kind of criticism or some type of perceived persecution and suddenly it is a global propaganda event.

you're right. Matthew Shepard was a drama queen.

[Remster 30]

Quote

or they were seen at a bar that catered to gays, etc. I escaped it by the skin of my teeth twice.

Someone should report that bar for keeping the gays imprisoned.

Remster

[jakee 1,571]

Gravitymaster

***

Quote

If he failed to do it, another one would.

So there's no problem.
So why the fuck are we talking about military chaplains?

You should really stop posting in a thread if you can't follow the flow of the conversation.

The extent to which you haven't grasped the logic of your own side's argument would be surprising if I hadn't read so many of your previous posts.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,571]

Quote

So you call them bigots and homophobes and other nasty names.

Nasty? They're just words. You should get over yourself, you little drama queen!

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[labrys 0]

Quote

Someone should report that bar for keeping the gays imprisoned.

Owned by Remi #?

[twatterpilot 0]

billvon

> However, what I do care about is their demand for special treatment.

Actually the big fuss was that gays were being singled out for special treatment (denial of marriage benefits.) The recent Supreme Court decision said "no more special treatment" - which is good for everyone involved.

So will it now be okay for polygamy to be legal?

>Why are the gays making such a big friggin deal out of this?

They're not any more. The discrimination against them has ended.

You wouldn't know it by their behavior and constant demand for attention.

>It is just a f**king word!

No, it's not. There were several thousand federal benefits/rights/privileges that were denied to them based on their sexual orientation.

So if I want to marry 6 women, the taxpayers should be obligated to give benefits to all of them if I have a federal job? That would be equal, right? (like I said, I don't care about gay marriage, just playing devils advocate here) Where does it end? I wanna marry my goat, the taxpayers MUST pay for her healthcare. OK, so same sex marriage is legal, now what about polygamy? Or bestiality? At what point do we draw the line?

> Some people don't agree with your lifestyle. So you call them bigots and
>homophobes and other nasty names.

You can disagree with someone's lifestyle and not be a bigot.

Oh really? Are you sure about that? Watch the news, Paula Dean ring a bell? She was ruined because of a word said 27 years ago. Say something against a group and you are forever branded.

Not everyone is gay (or a skydiver, or a singer, or black, or handicapped or whatever.) If you want the rights that you have withheld from other people because you find those people disgusting - that gets into bigot territory.

I don't find it disgusting, just biologically not normal. Two members of the same sex cannot reproduce. Period, end of discussion. Therefore, scientifically, the nature of the relationship comes into question. Personally I feel it is a choice to be homosexual. I don't care if they are, I don't care if they get the benefits. What I care about is why it was such a drain on the taxpayers. The voters of California voted to not recognize gay marriage. That is the democratic process at work. The court just overturned the will of the voters. Is that justice? (Again, devils advocate for arguments sake here)

>Would the homosexual community be offended if I demanded that I, as a straight
>person, be included in all their special events? Demanded that a "Straight Pride
>Parade" be held?

I am sure some gay group somewhere would be offended, just as "family values" groups are offended by gays. Too bad, so sad. You have a right to equality under the law; you do not have the right to not be offended.

True, so why aren't these events being held then? Because the politicians are afraid to grant permission out of fear of being lamb basted in the media. Being labeled bigots and racists.

>You cannot have "equality" when demanding any form of special treatment.

Agreed. Fortunately the Supreme Court just ended that special treatment, at least with regards to DOMA. You should be happy.

I am not happy, the law was enacted by a vast majority of both houses and signed into law by the left's beloved President Clinton. The spirit of the law was to pass the ball into the court of the states. Make the states and her citizens responsible for the decision to accept same sex marriage. That is where it belongs, in the hands of the states. California voted to not recognize, the will of the people has been overturned by 5 individuals. This is a prime example of the federal government over stepping their bounds. To me, personally, it really has nothing to do with gay marriage as much as it has to do with the administration overstepping it's bounds.

Personally, I don't care, you wanna marry another man or woman, fine. You want benefits for that person, fine. But, when the people speak out against it, they are criticized for it. Bigot, old ways need to die, stop believing in your magic book, faith ain't real etc. etc. etc. It's okay to hate Christianity, and call it names, and compare it to that barbarian religion that calls for the slaughter of all non believers and gays, but it isn't okay for that same Christian to believe that homosexuality is wrong? Hypocrisy much?

Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8
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Private Glider

[twatterpilot 0]

jakee

Quote

So you call them bigots and homophobes and other nasty names.

Nasty? They're just words. You should get over yourself, you little drama queen!

So is it okay then to call them names or use racial slurs? Or are those "words" off limits? Which words are okay and which aren't? Are the words themselves the issue or who is saying them?

Is it okay then to call them "Fag" and them to call me "disgusting breeder"? After all, they are just words right?

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[Stumpy 284]

twatterpilot

Personally I feel it is a choice to be homosexual.

When did you choose to be straight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJtjqLUHYoY

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[jakee 1,571]

twatterpilot

***

Quote

So you call them bigots and homophobes and other nasty names.

Nasty? They're just words. You should get over yourself, you little drama queen!

So is it okay then to call them names or use racial slurs? Or are those "words" off limits? Which words are okay and which aren't? Are the words themselves the issue or who is saying them?

Is it okay then to call them "Fag" and them to call me "disgusting breeder"? After all, they are just words right?

You appear to think the answer is no. So why isn't the word 'marriage' important?

And hey, just for shits and giggles, if it isn't important then why do you care that they now have it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

twatterpilot

I got a question. Would the homosexual community be offended if I demanded that I, as a straight person, be included in all their special events?

There were hundreds of thousands of straight people at Pride this past weekend. They're fine with it, unless your idea of inclusion is to picket with "Gays burn in hell signs." (Then they will mock your clothes and shoes)

You seem to be twattering around a large number of unrelated topics (polygamy, Paula Deen). Sounds like a Rush segment.

Oh, I missed the tired reference to beastiality too.

[jakee 1,571]

Quote

NO one cares who the heck you screw. Live life like a normal productive member of society and no one will care what you do in your bedroom.

That is provably untrue. In fact:

Quote

Some people don't agree with your lifestyle.

You just proved it.

How about you go away, take a few deep breaths, and come back when you can talk in a straight line, eh?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,089]

>So will it now be okay for polygamy to be legal?

No, not anywhere in the US I have heard of.

>You wouldn't know it by their behavior and constant demand for attention.

Uh, do you actually _know_ any gays?

> I wanna marry my goat, the taxpayers MUST pay for her healthcare. OK, so same sex
>marriage is legal, now what about polygamy? Or bestiality? At what point do we draw
>the line?

Are you really equating goats to gays? This is why the right wing often doesn't get taken seriously on stuff like this.

>Oh really? Are you sure about that? Watch the news, Paula Dean ring a bell?

Yep. She sounds like more of a bigot. (Although the whole thing is also being blown way out of proportion.)

>I don't find it disgusting, just biologically not normal.

That's fine.

>Two members of the same sex cannot reproduce. Period, end of discussion.

Uh, OK. Many heterosexual couples cannot reproduce either.

>Therefore, scientifically, the nature of the relationship comes into question.

No more so than a heterosexual couple's relationship who cannot reproduce. Say, an older couple or one where one partner is infertile.

>Personally I feel it is a choice to be homosexual.

Did you choose to be heterosexual? When? Was there honestly a time where you thought "I could have sex with men or women; they make me feel about the same - but I will choose to have sex with women?"

>What I care about is why it was such a drain on the taxpayers.

Gays make up a few percent of the population, and most of the expense of marriage to society comes from kid's education, tax breaks, food support for dependent kids etc. As you pointed out, gays cannot have kids without some external intervention (sperm donors, adoption.) Historically they have kids at a lower rate than heterosexual couples.

If you really want to "end the drain" - ban straight marriage. Gay marriage is a lot easier on your wallet.

Or better yet - remove any recognition of marriage at all from the Federal level. No survivor's benefits. No tax breaks for kids. No federal laws on wills. Nothing.

>The voters of California voted to not recognize gay marriage. That is the democratic
> process at work. The court just overturned the will of the voters. Is that justice?

Yes. There is a US Constitutional amendment that states "no State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States." By passing a law specifically removing legal privileges from gays, the California proposition process violated that part of the Constitution. This was decided by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and by dismissing the challenges to that the Supreme Court upheld that decision. And that is justice.

(Consider a California proposition that reinstated slavery. In the unlikely event that passed, it would be struck down because it violated the 13th Amendment.)

Historically, the voters of Virginia voted to not recognize interracial marriage either. The Supreme Court struck that down as well. That was another case of justice.

[twatterpilot 0]

Stumpy

***Personally I feel it is a choice to be homosexual.

When did you choose to be straight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJtjqLUHYoY

It is my opinion, nothing more. Is it not okay for me to have an opinion? Does it make me a bigot to have this opinion?

Personally, I guess I chose to be straight when I started chasing girls in school. The option was there, I was propositioned, I declined. I chose to sleep with women. And, for a while there, I chose to sleep with as many as I could! (I wasn't all that successful though! LOL)


If you are, when did you chose to be gay?

Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8
Commercial Multi-Engine Sea, Single Engine Land
Private Glider

[billvon 3,089]

>So is it okay then to call them names or use racial slurs?

You are free to do so. Your employer is free to fire you for doing so.

>Is it okay then to call them "Fag" and them to call me "disgusting breeder"?

If that's the way you want to live your life.

[billvon 3,089]

>Personally, I guess I chose to be straight when I started chasing girls in school.

So just before then you were attracted to men as well - but then decided to ignore those feelings and "be straight?"

[twatterpilot 0]

jakee

******

Quote

So you call them bigots and homophobes and other nasty names.

Nasty? They're just words. You should get over yourself, you little drama queen!

So is it okay then to call them names or use racial slurs? Or are those "words" off limits? Which words are okay and which aren't? Are the words themselves the issue or who is saying them?

Is it okay then to call them "Fag" and them to call me "disgusting breeder"? After all, they are just words right?

You appear to think the answer is no. So why isn't the word 'marriage' important?

And hey, just for shits and giggles, if it isn't important then why do you care that they now have it?

Read what I wrote, I don't actually care, just playing devils advocate.

And the answer is no. Words do matter, you just proved my point. The word marriage is not important to me, but apparently it is to the homosexual community. The lawmakers could have given them all the benefits of marriage and it would not have been enough if they couldn't use the word too.

Airline Transport Pilot, Multi-Engine Land, DHC-8
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[twatterpilot 0]

jakee

Quote

NO one cares who the heck you screw. Live life like a normal productive member of society and no one will care what you do in your bedroom.

That is provably untrue. In fact:

Quote

Some people don't agree with your lifestyle.

You just proved it.

How about you go away, take a few deep breaths, and come back when you can talk in a straight line, eh?

Umm, what? Your bedroom behavior is nobody's business but your own. No one needs to know my bedroom behavior. And my pointing out that some people don't agree with the homosexual lifestyle has to do with what again in regards to my opinion?

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