Knock Knock. . .

[DanG 1]

Quote

Imagine if you were on trail for something like this and the PRESIDENT made a comment related to it.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought the comment the President made regarded the fact that he wasn't on trial. I don't remember Obama saying he was guilty or innocent, just that the case should be tried.

- Dan G

[mirage62 0]

Quote

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought the comment the President made regarded the fact that he wasn't on trial. I don't remember Obama saying he was guilty or innocent, just that the case should be tried.

Do you really believe that in any manner the president needs to comment? Seriously? I would feel the same if it was Bush...or any other president.

The power of the office, the shear influence. Now add that at the time TM was being portrayed as a choir boy, very young pictures.....

I'll stand by my comment, I would not want to have the president involved AT ALL in the court of public opinion if my liberty was on the line.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[DanG 1]

Quote

Do you really believe that in any manner the president needs to comment? Seriously?

I don't know if he needs to comment, but on most news of the days he's expected to comment. I just don't think his comments, if I'm remembering them correctly, were out of line considering it looked at the time like the case wasn't being prosecuted.

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 226]

mirage62

Quote

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought the comment the President made regarded the fact that he wasn't on trial. I don't remember Obama saying he was guilty or innocent, just that the case should be tried.

Do you really believe that in any manner the president needs to comment? Seriously? I would feel the same if it was Bush...or any other president.

The power of the office, the shear influence. Now add that at the time TM was being portrayed as a choir boy, very young pictures.....

I'll stand by my comment, I would not want to have the president involved AT ALL in the court of public opinion if my liberty was on the line.

I think he acted stupidly.

But then he almost always does.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Kennedy 0]

DanG

Quote

Imagine if you were on trail for something like this and the PRESIDENT made a comment related to it.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought the comment the President made regarded the fact that he wasn't on trial. I don't remember Obama saying he was guilty or innocent, just that the case should be tried.

When the government says a person should be tried, it means the government believes the person is guilty. The court and the jury are to presume innocence, not the state. You don't put people on trial because something bad happened and it'll make you feel better.

By the way, when the president says you should be tried for something, you're fucked. That means there are political considerations influencing the outcome that have nothing to do with law or guilt.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[normiss 898]

After seeing some of today's testimony, I am starting to think this IS about race after all.
Just not in the way we're used to.

[Kennedy 0]

Please elaborate, I'd like to see what you mean.

I haven't been in the courtroom or watching hours of video, but if I were in GZ's shoes I wouldn't be feeling great. He needs to hope that jurors understand that 9-1-1 instructions are suggestions and not lawful orders, that the unintelligible girlfriend has already change her story once and asked detectives what she should say, and that the witness has change her story by adding details and has an agenda (she apparently published her desire to see GZ charged after the shooting). He also has to hope that jurors forget that NBC edited tape tht tried to make him look racist and the lies about him saying "fucking coons" to 9-1-1. Then he has to hope that jurors remember that no one else knows what happened to start the violence.

ETA: according the the liar who was on the phone before the shooting (aka the prosecution's star witness), TM was a racist who really liked using racial slurs, including cracker, nigger, and others.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Millstone 4]

I have to say, anyone who looks at this incident and thinks it is a justifiable shooting is at best a fucking idiot, and most likely a piece of shit racist freak. The kid was walking back from the store. He was followed. The cops told the fucking guy to stop following him. The kid ended up dead. It is beyond obvious what happened here. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who defends this shooting is a complete piece of shit asshole racist fuck tard. If this were not the Internet and in person, I would knock you the fuck out.

[turtlespeed 226]

Millstone

I have to say, anyone who looks at this incident and thinks it is a justifiable shooting is at best a fucking idiot, and most likely a piece of shit racist freak. The kid was walking back from the store. He was followed. The cops told the fucking guy to stop following him. The kid ended up dead. It is beyond obvious what happened here. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who defends this shooting is a complete piece of shit asshole racist fuck tard. If this were not the Internet and in person, I would knock you the fuck out.

I defend it . . .

Your ignorance is spectacular.

Your understanding of the legal process is amazing.

If Obama didn't make a call to DA, this case would have been shut already.

Let me know when your time machine lets you go back and witness what happened. Or have you already made your credibility as a witness known and are about to take the stand?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 898]

Huh.
Interesting. Not very, but still.

[Kennedy 0]

Millstone

I have to say, anyone who looks at this incident and thinks it is a justifiable shooting is at best a fucking idiot, and most likely a piece of shit racist freak.

Congratulations, you've just proven your opinion is worthless and you believe you are the arbiter of all that is right and good and those who disagree with you are imbeciles.

Quote

The kid was walking back from the store. He was followed. The cops told the fucking guy to stop following him. The kid ended up dead.

Right. Nothing else happened. There are no ambiguities. You know everything. And just to correct your facts, police do not tell him anything, the 9-1-1 operator did. Also, the is patcher did not tell him to stop, she said they didn't need him to do that. No one told him to stop, and 9-1-1 operators don't have any authority I tell anyone to do anything. I've not only been given wrong information by 9-1-1, I've been given such bad advice theta follow it would have led me to commit a crime.

Quote

It is beyond obvious what happened here. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who defends this shooting is a complete piece of shit asshole racist fuck tard. If this were not the Internet and in person, I would knock you the fuck out.

Ooh, internet tough guy. We're sooo impressed.
Unless you're a witness who fails to come forward the day of the hooting, you have no freaking idea what happened. You've just come to your own conclusions and think so much of yourself that you threaten violence on anyone who reaches another conclusion or wants to see the prosecution actually prove its case before handing out a verdict.

ps - I really hope you have better self control in public than behind your keyboard.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[RonD1120 62]

Millstone

I have to say, anyone who looks at this incident and thinks it is a justifiable shooting is at best a fucking idiot, and most likely a piece of shit racist freak. The kid was walking back from the store. He was followed. The cops told the fucking guy to stop following him. The kid ended up dead. It is beyond obvious what happened here. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who defends this shooting is a complete piece of shit asshole racist fuck tard. If this were not the Internet and in person, I would knock you the fuck out.

I'm curious, did it even occur to you that if you attempted to "knock (someone) the fuck out" you could get shot. Apparently, it did not occur to TM.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 2,150]

I'm impressed how so many people here know, without sitting in the courtroom and hearing ALL the evidence, just what happened that night.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FreeFallFiend 0]

Although I run across it every day I never cease to be amazed by the Online Disinhibition Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect

Also known as the "Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory"

Fiend

I am about to take my last voyage, a great leap in the dark. - Thomas Hobbes.

[Rick 67]

Millstone

I have to say, anyone who looks at this incident and thinks it is a justifiable shooting is at best a fucking idiot, and most likely a piece of shit racist freak. The kid was walking back from the store. He was followed. The cops told the fucking guy to stop following him. The kid ended up dead. It is beyond obvious what happened here. Anyone, absolutely anyone, who defends this shooting is a complete piece of shit asshole racist fuck tard. If this were not the Internet and in person, I would knock you the fuck out.

wow that's some stupid shit right there

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[normiss 898]

To be fair, the witness on the stand now, a state's witness, seems to be telling the exact same scenario that GZ has told from the beginning.

I have yet to see any evidence to contradict his story.

[turtlespeed 226]

kallend

I'm impressed how so many people here know, without sitting in the courtroom and hearing ALL the evidence, just what happened that night.

We really need to stop agreeing John, it's not healthy!

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[turtlespeed 226]

normiss

To be fair, the witness on the stand now, a state's witness, seems to be telling the exact same scenario that GZ has told from the beginning.

I have yet to see any evidence to contradict his story.

Thats the eye witness, correct?

It appeared that the state was trying to lead him into saying that GZ was on top and holding down or beating down TM.

The witness definitively said he could not be sure, and it looked like one mass, or a dog attacking a man.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 898]

Mr. Good I think is his name.

He said GZ was clearly on the bottom getting his ass handed to him from a black person in a hoodie on top on him in a kneeling position.
This is the guy that used the term "ground and pound" (from MMA?)

Based on the Florida self defense statute, this should be enough to walk. GZ will of course have to testify and clearly state he was in fear for his life, I also expect him to say that TM reached for his weapon when he felt it and realized GZ was armed.

Right or wrong?
Either side?
Don't think we're going to know.
Could have easily been avoided....and I bet the lighting and security systems at that development are MUCH improved.
Once it goes to a jury, could go either way.

[turtlespeed 226]

normiss

Mr. Good I think is his name.

He said GZ was clearly on the bottom getting his ass handed to him from a black person in a hoodie on top on him in a kneeling position.
This is the guy that used the term "ground and pound" (from MMA?)

Based on the Florida self defense statute, this should be enough to walk. GZ will of course have to testify and clearly state he was in fear for his life, I also expect him to say that TM reached for his weapon when he felt it and realized GZ was armed.

Right or wrong?
Either side?
Don't think we're going to know.
Could have easily been avoided....and I bet the lighting and security systems at that development are MUCH improved.
Once it goes to a jury, could go either way.

The bearded guy? Hmm. I thought I heard him say that he couldn't be 100% certain.

GZ was probably over bearing and seems a bit intolerant of certain sub sets of people (To put it politely).
If he had simply waited for the cops it would have been a non issue.

If he had not had the POTUS make a phone call - there would have been a lot less coverage and spotlighting. But - never let a good crisis go to waste.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[GeorgiaDon 380]

Quote

If he had not had the POTUS make a phone call...

Can you (or anyone) please provide a link to any primary news source that confirms that this happened? I've honestly tried several times over the past couple of days to find such a confirmation, and I can't. All I can find is reference to a speech where he said:

“If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.”

and

“All of us have to do some soul-searching to figure out how does something like this happen. And that means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened, as well as the specifics of the incident.”

It's hard for me to see why people find either comment to be controversial. However, as far as I can tell, it is those comments that somehow mutated into "Obama called the DA and demanded Zimmerman be prosecuted". Maybe I'm mistaken? However it would fit with all the rest of the aspects of the case, such as Zimmerman's statement to the 911 operator that Martin was "walking and looking around" mutating into a statement that Martin was "skulking around looking into windows as if he was looking for a place to B&E".

Thanks,
Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[popsjumper 2]

turtlespeed

Could have easily been avoided...

...had TM just kept walking home instead of coming back to confront a person 'following' him.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[linebckr83 3]

I know Normiss is, but is anyone else watching this thing live? If so, has anyone watched the news channels also?

I've watched live streaming video all week on foxnews.com (best video stream i can find), and the amount of spin is absolutely incredible on the media channels. Inserting clips of non-courtroom press releases from last year, talking about how TM was "running home for his life" which so far has not even been hinted at in the courtroom, and completely dismissing John Good's huge testimony earlier. I knew mainstream media was bad, but never knew to this level. Apalling. Atleast there is streaming video (on several sites) so people can watch the truth.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[kelpdiver 2]

linebckr83

I've watched live streaming video all week on foxnews.com (best video stream i can find), and the amount of spin is absolutely incredible on the media channels. Inserting clips of non-courtroom press releases from last year, talking about how TM was "running home for his life" which so far has not even been hinted at in the courtroom, and completely dismissing John Good's huge testimony earlier. I knew mainstream media was bad, but never knew to this level. Apalling. Atleast there is streaming video (on several sites) so people can watch the truth.

This trial has seen remarkably bad coverage - eye opening stuff, really, about the risks of taking presented material at face value. Anyone who insists they know GZ is guilty are at fault in two separate ways - falling for bad data and failing to understand what presumption of innocence means. But if they do result a guilty result, look for data that was not in the common talking points for the last year.