Thoughts on Syria

[rehmwa 2]

SkyDekker

***I'm wondering where the UN is in all of this. They should be the ones stepping up.

Israel is probably in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Should somebody do something about that too?

It's hard to affect the way the UN does business. Maybe someday....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GeorgiaDon 379]

rehmwa

******I'm wondering where the UN is in all of this. They should be the ones stepping up.

Israel is probably in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Should somebody do something about that too?

It's hard to affect the way the UN does business. Maybe someday....The UN is like the US government on steroids.

What do I mean by that? The US government is set up with 3 levels so to get anything done they all have to agree. In theory, at least, that makes it hard to get legislation through the process. The UN has five permanent member of the security council with veto power over any resolutions, plus 10 other members who change out every five years. To get anything to pass you have to have 9/15 votes, plus unanimous support from the five permanent members. Good luck getting China, Russia, and the US+UK+France block to vote the same way on anything. You'd probably have better odds getting a consensus on climate change from the Speaker's Corner regulars.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[BigMikeH77 0]

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Israel is probably in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Should somebody do something about that too?

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It's hard to affect the way the UN does business. Maybe someday....

Maaybe once people can actually think for themselves and see the Israelis for what they are, ideoligical idiots whom claim thet that corner of the desert is their "promised land" from God because some guy ate a cactus and had a conversation with a burning shrub a couple thousand years ago? They're no different from anyone else in the region and neither exempt from rules nor afforded special status. If enough people grow a pair and stop fearing being labeled as an antisemite then the way things are done in the UN in respect to Israel might some day change... But as it stands now, call Israel out on anything and you've immediately been labeled and you must be a huge prejudiced bigot. Hmmm.. Nice little setup they have going for them.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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You're blaming Obama and bitching about something that hasn't even happened yet?

I didn't blame Obama for anything. If anything I was criticizing the consensus mainstream media for their approach to selectively covering news. But are you sure what you claim hasn't happened yet, hasn't actually happened? After all this administration did send weapons to the Mexican drug cartels without telling the American people about it. You trust your government so much that you believe everything they tell you.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[tristansdad 0]

Can you provide examples of the resolutions that Israel has violated?

[BigMikeH77 0]

*** You trust your government so much that you believe everything they tell you.

That's an insulting assumption and I don't appreciate being labeled as a sheep. I don't trust the government any more than I trust any single MSM source or, for that matter, my ex-wife. Smart people get their information from a variety of sources, sift through the BS, and come to their own conclusions.

[Channman 2]

SkyDekker

***I'm wondering where the UN is in all of this. They should be the ones stepping up.

Israel is probably in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Should somebody do something about that too?

Nope, Israel is one of the Good Guys...and a good buddy to have in the region. Look if left alone, Islam is doing more to kill itself off without any interferance from the outside world.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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That's an insulting assumption and I don't appreciate being labeled as a sheep

I wouldn't say PA's don't happen here at the DorkZone (as they occasionally do). But the difference between this site versus many anonymous internet sites is that some of us have actually met each other and jumped together. Word of advice. You are going to need to grow thicker skin if you felt insulted by what was said.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[BigMikeH77 0]

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You are going to need to grow thicker skin if you felt insulted by what was said.

I didnt say my feelings were hurt, I said it was insulting that the assumption was made that I "believe everything they tell me." You don't know me, so how can that comclusion be reached? Stupidity is insulting to those around you.

As far as thicker skin goes, I'm not the one complaining about being called out for making an incorrect assumption. This isn't even about the MSM's treatment of th ecurrent administration anyway, so it shouldnt have even brought up.

[Channman 2]

BigMikeH77

*** You trust your government so much that you believe everything they tell you.

That's an insulting assumption and I don't appreciate being labeled as a sheep. I don't trust the government any more than I trust any single MSM source or, for that matter, my ex-wife. Smart people get their information from a variety of sources, sift through the BS, and come to their own conclusions.

Well at least CanuckInUSA didn't label you as a Racist....still brushing the sand off my shoes, gotta go, the NSA just called asking if I could provide CanuckInUSA contact info

[ryoder 1,590]

tristansdad

Can you provide examples of the resolutions that Israel has violated?

After a minute of googling: http://www.geocities.com/savepalestinenow/unresolutions/studyguide/sgunres1e.html

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BigMikeH77 0]

EVERYONE has their own prejudices... Racists and bigots are punished by their ignorance...
Sheep, on the other hand... well...

[kelpdiver 2]

ryoder

***Can you provide examples of the resolutions that Israel has violated?

After a minute of googling: http://www.geocities.com/savepalestinenow/unresolutions/studyguide/sgunres1e.html

A geocities (what the fuck? This thing still exists?) site called "savepalestinenow" is hardly an objective source.

And the UN shows the problems of democracy - there are far more neighbors that want Israeli destroyed, or other Islamic nations doing so out of support, then there are allies of Israel. Fortunately, two of them have the rather undemocratic veto power to nix such bullshit.

BigMike - when Hamas and Iran and Hezbollah stop working for the destruction of Israel, I'll worry about UN resolutions. Until then, they can go fuck a pig.

[ryoder 1,590]

kelpdiver

******Can you provide examples of the resolutions that Israel has violated?

After a minute of googling: http://www.geocities.com/savepalestinenow/unresolutions/studyguide/sgunres1e.html

A geocities (what the fuck? This thing still exists?) site called "savepalestinenow" is hardly an objective source.


The resolutions are cited by number. Anyone can look them up.

Pick one you like: https://www.google.com/search?q=u.n.+resolutions+condemning+israel&oq=u.n.+resolutions+condemning+israel&aqs=chrome.0.57.14275j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&fp=9412fbf8100d150b&q=u.n.+resolutions+regarding+israel

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[BigMikeH77 0]

The Israelis aren't an innocent party. There ARE NO good guys in the region, and everyone at one point and another has brought about their own problems. My point of view on it is simply that the Israelis' own actions (including the events leading up to the 6 days war) have created their current and historical predicament and I feel no empathy for them.

Does that make me an anti-semite? No.. I base my opinions on experience, not race or creed... Don't take my word for it though;
"Every time Israel comes under international pressure, as it did recently because of the war crimes committed in Lebanon, it steps up the claim of anti-Semitism, and all of Israel's critics are anti-Semitic." N. Finkelstein, 2005.

[kallend 2,146]

SkyDekker

***I'm wondering where the UN is in all of this. They should be the ones stepping up.

Israel is probably in violation of more UN resolutions than any other country. Should somebody do something about that too?

Just send money.

Oh wait, we do that already.

Send MORE money.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BigMikeH77 0]

I might be wrong, but I remember reading recently that Israel receives the most financial foreign aid than any other nation... Anyone know if that's true?

[ryoder 1,590]

BigMikeH77

I might be wrong, but I remember reading recently that Israel receives the most financial foreign aid than any other nation... Anyone know if that's true?

2001-2009 numbers: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1299.pdf

Iraq & Afghanistan are high for obvious reasons.
W/o them, Israel would be about double any other recipient.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kallend 2,146]

BigMikeH77

I might be wrong, but I remember reading recently that Israel receives the most financial foreign aid than any other nation... Anyone know if that's true?

Yes.

www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s1299.pdf

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Egypt is pretty high on that list.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[kelpdiver 2]

BigMikeH77

The Israelis aren't an innocent party. There ARE NO good guys in the region, and everyone at one point and another has brought about their own problems. My point of view on it is simply that the Israelis' own actions (including the events leading up to the 6 days war) have created their current and historical predicament and I feel no empathy for them.

well, sure, if you are going to insist that no matter that they do or did in the last 40 years, it's their fault, then you're going to end up with this mindset. Never mind that no action short of ritual suicide would be sufficient for Hamas or Iran, who directly funds attacks, just as Hussein did when he was still leader of Iraq.

It's been just a few years since Syria was caught trying to develop nuclear weapons in violation of their NPT pledge. I bet you condemn the Israelis for bombing that back into the desert. It was rather telling that Syrian leadership hardly acknowledged it even happened.

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Does that make me an anti-semite? No.. I base my opinions on experience, not race or creed... Don't take my word for it though;
"Every time Israel comes under international pressure, as it did recently because of the war crimes committed in Lebanon, it steps up the claim of anti-Semitism, and all of Israel's critics are anti-Semitic." N. Finkelstein, 2005.

Well, that would be fine if someone here called you one, rather than just wrong. That shit (straw) don't fly here.

[rickjump1 0]

BigMikeH77

The Israelis aren't an innocent party. There ARE NO good guys in the region, and everyone at one point and another has brought about their own problems. My point of view on it is simply that the Israelis' own actions (including the events leading up to the 6 days war) have created their current and historical predicament and I feel no empathy for them.

Does that make me an anti-semite? No.. I base my opinions on experience, not race or creed... Don't take my word for it though;
"Every time Israel comes under international pressure, as it did recently because of the war crimes committed in Lebanon, it steps up the claim of anti-Semitism, and all of Israel's critics are anti-Semitic." N. Finkelstein, 2005.

Just look at our options in the region. Like it or not, Israel is the closest thing we do have for a friend in the region whether you think they are good or bad. As to the events leading up to the 6 Day War, there is no doubt they were responsible for the attack on the USS Liberty resulting in the deaths of 34 Americans and the wounding of 171 others. They even lied that our ship was not flying the American flag and that they thought it was an Egyptian ship; all lies. The fact remains they are the closest thing we have for a friend and ally in this part of the world. I believe they have the only democracy in this part of the world, and after Israel, we are the next prize for islam.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[BigMikeH77 0]

Oh my god the delusions of evil islamists taking over the world are abound. Tell me again, who supplies, trains, fiunds rebel forces with weapons in hopes of overthrowing governments and replacing them with factions sympathetic to their own interests, disregarding human rights and moral obligation in the name of their own self righteousness??

USA! USA! USA!
And what exactly are the motives behind our obligations to Israel? Is it ideological? Are we, the USA, somehow defending "God's Promise" by helping the poor, persecuted Israelis? Heck no.

[BigMikeH77 0]

I will say thank you, though, for bringing up the USS Liberty. I wasn't going to mention it.

[BigMikeH77 0]

But back to the REAL topic, what to do about Syria.. Unfortunately, we shouldn't do a DAMN thing unless its a part of a UN action.

I mentioned in an earlier post that there have been "Confirmations" that chemical weapons have been used.. Okay, just a few points on that. First, it was also "Confirmed" by the G.W. administration that Iraq had WMD's.... And despite what SOME people on this thread say, no I DO NOT blindly believe what ANY news source or government tells me. (That comment still pisses me off.)

So with that being said, isn't it also possible that perhaps our confirmations should be backed up and presented to the UN Security Council or something before we start shipping more weapons into an historically unstable region?

Secondly, and I'm not trying to downplay chemical weapons here, but I didn't hear any "confirmation" of exactly which kind(s) of chemical weapons were used. What was it... A nerve agent? Blister agent? Was it of russian. chinese, AMERICAN origin? Was it something as simple as riot gas? I want details... And I think people SHOULD demand more information.