billvon 3,107 #26 June 13, 2013 >Then why are you posting this to me and not the childish liberals? Because you are as bad as any of them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loudtom 5 #27 June 13, 2013 John, really...that is your response? Maybe officials that violate the law should be put in jail. “These school officials broke the rules and violated state and federal law and their own board policy,” Sasser said. “They should be held accountable for violating school board policy and causing needless embarrassment for Joshua ISD and the Joshua community.” So the kid wasn't really breaking the rules he was following the law. What would you have him do? It starts at the top and rolls down hill. Conform regardless or you will be targeted. Just sayin'...tom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loudtom 5 #28 June 13, 2013 kallend And the guy was correct. An official school function is not an appropriate venue for a religious diatribe, whether about Jesus, Allah, Jaweh, Zeus or Odin. Who are you to make this claim.. We started our graduation ceremony with a damn prayer didn't you????? And what difference does it make what party this guy belonged to. Censorship is just that. And you claim he followed district rules and he clearly did not. Are you feeling ok? lttom #90 #54 #08 and now #5 with a Bronze :-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #29 June 13, 2013 loudtomWe started our graduation ceremony with a damn prayer didn't you????? Yes. Had I known that would happen, however, I wouldn't have walked. QuoteAnd you claim he followed district rules and he clearly did not. The student deviated from the speech he submitted for review. The stated policy was to shut off the mic if that happened. The content of the speech isn't relevant.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #30 June 14, 2013 billvon>Then why are you posting this to me and not the childish liberals? Because you are as bad as any of them. Just joined the crowd you reside in"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 June 14, 2013 billvon>For the mods - other forums have a 'foe' button that automatically hides posts from >people that you tag with this. What are the chances of getting such a system here? We've thought about that. (Also a karma system, where users can vote on the value of a post, and then allow users to exclude posts below a threshold.) For now it's pretty easy to just not read posts from users who add no value. not when they (who shall not be named) engage in a long pattern of full citation followed by insipid one liners. I have to do a crapload of scrolling to get passed it, and that's even if I'm saintly enough not to get pulled into the mud. Remove them and some threads will get lighter, and meatier. The ratings approach doesn't really work well for this problem. It's more suitable on slashdot where posting rates are throttled and back and forth debate is less common. I'm a big fan of forums that let you 'ignore user' and instead you see a tiny block saying "you've ignored this post. Click here to view anyway." As seen on dpreview. I use it for people who insist on raising irrelevant distractions to threads since I feel compelled to try to address it for some reason. (honey, are you coming to bed? No, someone on the internet is wrong) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #32 June 14, 2013 kelpdiver (honey, are you coming to bed? No, someone on the internet is wrong) Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #33 June 14, 2013 kallend Marc, please explain to us why an overwhelmingly conservative Texas town would ELECT a school board that would then select a liberal principal for its high school. Your conclusion is not just devoid of a factual basis, it also defies logic. It seems you are thinking that people approach all elections with logical, well thought out decisions on which candidates are best for the office. Marion BarryMy reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #34 June 14, 2013 jcd11235***We started our graduation ceremony with a damn prayer didn't you????? Yes. Had I known that would happen, however, I wouldn't have walked. QuoteAnd you claim he followed district rules and he clearly did not. The student deviated from the speech he submitted for review. The stated policy was to shut off the mic if that happened. The content of the speech isn't relevant. Show me in the literature of the student handbook and policies that I provided links to where it mentions that microphones will be shut off for sensorship. Show me where it mentions that the school or its supposed leaders are entitled to edit a d revise a speech they are not writing. Show me where the policies were adhered to.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #35 June 14, 2013 popsjumper*** Marc, please explain to us why an overwhelmingly conservative Texas town would ELECT a school board that would then select a liberal principal for its high school. Your conclusion is not just devoid of a factual basis, it also defies logic. It seems you are thinking that people approach all elections with logical, well thought out decisions on which candidates are best for the office. What evidence is there that the principal is a "liberal"? NONE. He's from a conservative state, educated in another conservative state, works in a conservative town and appointed by a school board elected by overwhelmingly conservative voters.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #36 June 14, 2013 kallend****** Marc, please explain to us why an overwhelmingly conservative Texas town would ELECT a school board that would then select a liberal principal for its high school. Your conclusion is not just devoid of a factual basis, it also defies logic. It seems you are thinking that people approach all elections with logical, well thought out decisions on which candidates are best for the office. What evidence is there that the principal is a "liberal"? NONE. He's from a conservative state, educated in another conservative state, works in a conservative town and appointed by a school board elected by overwhelmingly conservative voters. Ya notice how when given information that your argument doesn't hold water, you change the subject?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #37 June 14, 2013 turtlespeed******We started our graduation ceremony with a damn prayer didn't you????? Yes. Had I known that would happen, however, I wouldn't have walked. QuoteAnd you claim he followed district rules and he clearly did not. The student deviated from the speech he submitted for review. The stated policy was to shut off the mic if that happened. The content of the speech isn't relevant. Show me in the literature of the student handbook and policies that I provided links to where it mentions that microphones will be shut off for sensorship. Show me where it mentions that the school or its supposed leaders are entitled to edit a d revise a speech they are not writing. Show me where the policies were adhered to. From your source: "The Joshua ISD issued a statement to MyFoxDFW noting, 'student speakers were told that if their speeches deviated from the prior-reviewed material, the microphone would be turned off, regardless of content. When one student’s speech deviated from the prior-reviewed speech, the microphone was turned off, pursuant to District policy and procedure.'"Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #38 June 14, 2013 turtlespeed********* Marc, please explain to us why an overwhelmingly conservative Texas town would ELECT a school board that would then select a liberal principal for its high school. Your conclusion is not just devoid of a factual basis, it also defies logic. It seems you are thinking that people approach all elections with logical, well thought out decisions on which candidates are best for the office. What evidence is there that the principal is a "liberal"? NONE. He's from a conservative state, educated in another conservative state, works in a conservative town and appointed by a school board elected by overwhelmingly conservative voters. Ya notice how when given information that your argument doesn't hold water, you change the subject? Read the title YOU gave the thread. Read the source you cited in the OP. Take more care with your reading this time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #39 June 14, 2013 Would you feel the same if the student had started a diatribe about the importance of Allah?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #40 June 14, 2013 jcd11235*********We started our graduation ceremony with a damn prayer didn't you????? Yes. Had I known that would happen, however, I wouldn't have walked. QuoteAnd you claim he followed district rules and he clearly did not. The student deviated from the speech he submitted for review. The stated policy was to shut off the mic if that happened. The content of the speech isn't relevant. Show me in the literature of the student handbook and policies that I provided links to where it mentions that microphones will be shut off for sensorship. Show me where it mentions that the school or its supposed leaders are entitled to edit a d revise a speech they are not writing. Show me where the policies were adhered to. From your source: "The Joshua ISD issued a statement to MyFoxDFW noting, 'student speakers were told that if their speeches deviated from the prior-reviewed material, the microphone would be turned off, regardless of content. When one student’s speech deviated from the prior-reviewed speech, the microphone was turned off, pursuant to District policy and procedure.'" I know you have comprehension problems, but please, try stay up with the rest of the class. I posted the policies and procedures that the school is supposed to follow. (From their own website) I pointed out where they did NOT follow their own procedure. Just because the principal SAYS he did does not make it so. What they did was wrong. Just admit it and stop arguing just to be contrary.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #41 June 14, 2013 kallend Would you feel the same if the student had started a diatribe about the importance of Allah? Again - quoted from their own policies . . . Do try to pay attention. QuoteThe District shall treat a student's voluntary expression of a religious viewpoint, if any, on an otherwise permissible subject in the same manner the District treats a student's voluntary expression of a secular or other viewpoint on an otherwise permissible subject and shall not discriminate against the student based on a religious viewpoint expressed by the student on an otherwise permissible subject. It wouldn't matter what the religion is.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #42 June 14, 2013 turtlespeedI know you have comprehension problems, but please, try stay up with the rest of the class. I posted the policies and procedures that the school is supposed to follow. (From their own website) I pointed out where they did NOT follow their own procedure. Just because the principal SAYS he did does not make it so. What they did was wrong. Just admit it and stop arguing just to be contrary. So your saying that the source you provided isn't credible? Fair enough.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #43 June 14, 2013 turtlespeedQuoteThe District shall treat a student's voluntary expression of a religious viewpoint, if any, on an otherwise permissible subject in the same manner the District treats a student's voluntary expression of a secular or other viewpoint on an otherwise permissible subject and shall not discriminate against the student based on a religious viewpoint expressed by the student on an otherwise permissible subject. "I know you have comprehension problems, but please, try stay up with the rest of the class." The passage you quoted refers to the speech to be submitted. It doesn't address what happens if the speech delivered deviates from the speech submitted. There is zero indication that the audio was cut off because of the content of the speech, except that it deviated from what the student submitted.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 379 #44 June 14, 2013 It's remarkable how many people get their constitutional panties in a wad over certain rights (prominently the 2nd amendment), yet have no problem at all with people using a government entity (schools) to force people to listen to their religious quackery. How many would be defending this kid if his speech had been about the greatness of Allah? Does the call to "witness" include an indulgence to break Commandments? If you submit one speech for review, assure the school that this is the speech you will deliver, then substitute a blatantly religious sermon, haven't you lied? Isn't there a Commandment about lying? Just as there is tension between security and privacy, there is going to be tension between religious freedom and freedom of speech. You may believe whatever religion you wish, and you can preach that religion in an almost unlimited number of ways and venues. However, you cannot co-opt government facilities and use them to proselytize or coerce on behalf of your beliefs, as the government is bound by the constitution to be strictly neutral with regard to religion. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #45 June 14, 2013 turtlespeed********* Marc, please explain to us why an overwhelmingly conservative Texas town would ELECT a school board that would then select a liberal principal for its high school. Your conclusion is not just devoid of a factual basis, it also defies logic. It seems you are thinking that people approach all elections with logical, well thought out decisions on which candidates are best for the office. What evidence is there that the principal is a "liberal"? NONE. He's from a conservative state, educated in another conservative state, works in a conservative town and appointed by a school board elected by overwhelmingly conservative voters. Ya notice how when given information that your argument doesn't hold water, you change the subject? Translation - you have no evidence that the principal is a liberal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #46 June 14, 2013 jcd11235 ***I know you have comprehension problems, but please, try stay up with the rest of the class. I posted the policies and procedures that the school is supposed to follow. (From their own website) I pointed out where they did NOT follow their own procedure. Just because the principal SAYS he did does not make it so. What they did was wrong. Just admit it and stop arguing just to be contrary. So your saying that the source you provided isn't credible? Fair enough. Ah yes the whole reading comprehension trouble again.It was their own policies that I posted from their own website. The principal, faculty and staff did not follow those policies. Why is that so hard for you to understand?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #47 June 14, 2013 QuoteThe passage you quoted refers to the speech to be submitted. It doesn't address what happens if the speech delivered deviates from the speech submitted. So rare to see logic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 226 #48 June 14, 2013 jcd11235***QuoteThe District shall treat a student's voluntary expression of a religious viewpoint, if any, on an otherwise permissible subject in the same manner the District treats a student's voluntary expression of a secular or other viewpoint on an otherwise permissible subject and shall not discriminate against the student based on a religious viewpoint expressed by the student on an otherwise permissible subject. "I know you have comprehension problems, but please, try stay up with the rest of the class." The passage you quoted refers to the speech to be submitted. It doesn't address what happens if the speech delivered deviates from the speech submitted. There is zero indication that the audio was cut off because of the content of the speech, except that it deviated from what the student submitted. Again - Show me where that is their policy. Show me where there is policy in place and in writing that dictates the parameters of what is allowed and what is not allowed. It's pretty clear to me in the above quoted paragraph that religious expression will NOT be discriminated against. If the staff edited it out and denied him the availability of the expression, then they obviously violated their own policy.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #49 June 14, 2013 turtlespeed Ah yes the whole reading comprehension trouble again.It was their own policies that I posted from their own website. The principal, faculty and staff did not follow those policies. Why is that so hard for you to understand? If you read carefully, you'll see that the policy you posted isn't applicable to the situation. If you can show us how he submitted the speech he delivered, and that submission was rejected, then you might have a point (though first amendment considerations would trump district policy if the student was trying to deliver a sermon).Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #50 June 14, 2013 turtlespeedAgain - Show me where that is their policy. I already did.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
