NSA collecting phone records of millions of Verizon customers daily

[kelpdiver 2]

ryoder

If you really believe the NSA is incapable of doing a reverse lookup on a phone number, then there is no point trying to reason with you.

There isn't. It's clear he's part of that significant contingent who in their drive to support the President will endorse any intrusive efforts in the pursuit of Security. I find is nearly as distasteful that a large chunk of Republicans are now disowning their support for the Patriot Act et all now that it scores them points against Obama, but at least they're now siding with the People and the Constitution.

[rehmwa 2]

It's pretty much SOP, isn't it?

- One party cracks a door somewhere and sneakily abuses it for gain.
- Then the next party swings the door wide open and overdoes it even worse.
- Then each party points at the other and tries to assign blame on the other when both are seriously guilty.

(then Kallend and Rush poke each other with pointy sticks)


the scary bit is wondering how many doors are already 'cracked open' a bit that we currently don't know about

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,147]

jcd11235

***I spent several years in Telecommunications with a specialty in systems implementation, data security & integrity. There was a point in time when testing circuits that if we accidentally bumped on to someone's phone call; we had less than five seconds to disconnect. Not five seconds - LESS than five seconds.

Yes, because you would have been surveilling the content, a critical distinction from what NSA is doing.



NSA is SO truthful about what they are doing. I'm sure the NSA would never mislead us.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[turtlespeed 226]

jcd11235

***If you really believe the NSA is incapable of doing a reverse lookup on a phone number, then there is no point trying to reason with you.

I have no doubt that, as a network administrator, you are capable of some pretty nefarious stuff. I'd be willing to bet that you're quite capable of installing logging software on most of the computers on your network. I doubt you do so indiscriminately, though. Should we assume that you do that nefarious stuff simply because you are capable?

Personally, there's lots of things I could easily do, yet I do not do them.

Also, burner phones make reverse lookup pretty useless.

Um.. It was admitted to, and is in the process of being confirmed.
What are you going to say when you are proven so very wrong?

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[kallend 2,147]

For you, rushmc and gravitymaster...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[jcd11235 0]

turtlespeed

It was admitted to, and is in the process of being confirmed.

Really? Please be so kind as to link to an admission that NSA has direct access to the servers of Google, Facebook, Apple, Microsoft, etc.

Or are you referring to the legal, court-ordered collection of metadata? That's a non-story.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 23]

Considering all there is out there to read on this subject something occured to me

Are those in gov, who are bitching the loudest about this, worried about the security of the USA? Or are there some political clowns worrying about their own asses when more is revealed???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

Are those in gov, who are bitching the loudest about this, worried about the security of the USA? Or are there some political clowns worrying about their own asses when more is revealed???

yes

(some from the 'worried group', and a LOT from the 'covering their asses' group)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rushmc 23]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/06/12/Politico-Obama-Oversaw-greatest-expansion-of-electronic-surveillence-In-US-History

Quote

Politico: Obama Oversaw 'Greatest Expansion of Electronic Surveillance In U.S. History'

Quote

The very same media that doesn't want to admit what Obama is doing is the very same media that spent years savaging President George W. Bush for doing much less. But to admit Their Precious One is Bush on steroids is probably a reality that is just too bleak to face.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

rushmc

Their Precious One is Bush on steroids

1 - Obama is Clearly "Bush on Steroids"

2 - I think the political environment of the last decades was/is such that pretty much any candidate from either party would have devolved into "Bush on Steroids"

3 - The fact that we elected a crooked Chicago style politician just meant we got "Bush on Steroids" on Steroids.

Which might save us. Now, not only are centerline reps ditching the party for things like a more defined Libertarianism we are seeing that the centerline dems are also FINALLY getting fed up with the same shit in their own party and moving to alternate views as well. Combine this with a growing movement of people clear headed enough to acknowledge the out of control spending and borrowing and taxing going on for things that just intrude into our freedoms; we may finally get traction if a party of fiscal control and tight budgets is mixed in with a social agenda of "let people live their lives as they wish"

instead of two parties of "tax/borrow/spend on my social vision"


I think a lot of interest would be generated in a party based on "Spend the bare minimum and then mind our own business" philosophy. If the entrenched parties would just stop mischaracterizing them or try to hijack the movement.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[champu 1]

jcd11235

...you would have been surveilling the content...

I know people use this broken word all the time, but if you're trying to make a specific distinction on a word, I would pick something other than, "surveilling." It's like taking the word "consternation" and saying "this situation consterns me." You end up with something that's kinda close but just sounds goofy.

And the level of rigor suggested by the real word, surveying, is largely ambiguous and probably spans the line you would draw on what is acceptable.

[kallend 2,147]

rehmwa

*** Their Precious One is Bush on steroids

1 - Obama is Clearly "Bush on Steroids"



Just because the leak occurred in 2013 doesn't in any way suggest that programs like this (and maybe worse) weren't going on in 2004 (to pick a year at random). “If You Have Nothing To Hide, You Have Nothing To Fear” long predates Obama.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BIGUN 1,483]

>burner phones...

No such thing... Well. unless you watch too much NCIS

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

>burner phones...

No such thing... Well. unless you watch too much NCIS

Please tell us you don't actually believe that. Wow.

It's trivial to obtain a phone and pre-paid service that is not linked to any particular individual, at least in the US.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BIGUN 1,483]

jcd11235

***>burner phones...

No such thing... Well. unless you watch too much NCIS

Please tell us you don't actually believe that. Wow.

It's trivial to obtain a phone and pre-paid service that is not linked to any particular individual, at least in the US.

Give it a shot. When you're setting it up, lemmee know at what point you bailed out of the process.

ETA: Or you could always give Mr. Skinner a call and see how that worked for him..

In 2006 the DEA arrested a man named Melvin Skinner, who was caught transporting 1,100 pounds of marijuana across the Southwest. The government was able to catch up with Skinner by tracking the signals being emitted by his two prepaid cellphones and subsequently triangulating his location.

He even lost on appeal when he used the "burner non-traceable" right to privacy defense. http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/12a0262p-06.pdf

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[quade 4]

Burner phones exist. The entire point though is if you want to stay anonymous and not get caught while using them, you're supposed to fucking throw them away. Holding on to them long enough for them to be tracked to you; that's just fucking stupid.

You want to use them? Pay for it with cash. Never turn it on. Never touch it with your bare hand. Never use it near where you're doing your deal. Use it ONCE and toss it the fuck away.

http://www.tracfone.com/phone_detail.jsp?contentID=UCMTST_009569&title=Samsung%20S125G
Available at WalMarts nationwide. Generally no need to carry until you need to use.

Honestly, didn't you kids learn anything in school?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jcd11235 0]

BIGUN

******>burner phones...

No such thing... Well. unless you watch too much NCIS

Please tell us you don't actually believe that. Wow.

It's trivial to obtain a phone and pre-paid service that is not linked to any particular individual, at least in the US.

Give it a shot. When you're setting it up, lemmee know at what point you bailed out of the process.

ETA: Or you could always give Mr. Skinner a call and see how that worked for him..

In 2006 the DEA arrested a man named Melvin Skinner, who was caught transporting 1,100 pounds of marijuana across the Southwest. The government was able to catch up with Skinner by tracking the signals being emitted by his two prepaid cellphones and subsequently triangulating his location.

He even lost on appeal when he used the "burner non-traceable" right to privacy defense. http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/12a0262p-06.pdf

Not every pre-paid phone is a burner phone. And anonymity is just one more thing trumped by stupid.

You'll notice in that case, the phones were not identified as the users' through data associated with the phone, but rather from other aspects of the investigation. The defendant was apparently too dumb to replace his phone regularly and often, and keep it turned off (with battery and SIM card removed) when not in use. (Keeping the phone in a Faraday cage should also work.) His phones were located via GPS, not a connection of the phone number to an individual.

That case strongly indicates that you can't fix stupid, but it doesn't indicate that burner phones don't exist, as you claim.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rushmc 23]

Anybody else believe that these programs saved many American lives?

If you do, do you need some ocean front property in AZ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/nsa-surveillance-data-terror-attack

Quote

But court documents lodged in the US and UK, as well as interviews with involved parties, suggest that data-mining through Prism and other NSA programmes played a relatively minor role in the interception of the two plots. Conventional surveillance techniques, in both cases including old-fashioned tip-offs from intelligence services in Britain, appear to have initiated the investigations.

Opps

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 62]

Well, for one reason, twelve years ago we had a president who was a leader and we trusted him. Times change and time changes things.

The good news, we aren't paranoid. They really are out to get us.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Stumpy 284]

RonD1120

twelve years ago we had a president who was a leader and we trusted him.

Oh the irony.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[quade 4]

Stumpy

***twelve years ago we had a president who was a leader and we trusted him.

Oh the irony.

I don't think he's going to understand it even after it's been pointed out.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

quade

******twelve years ago we had a president who was a leader and we trusted him.

Oh the irony.

I don't think he's going to understand it even after it's been pointed out.

Unlike now when we have a "Real President" who is a "Real Leader" and we can "Really Trust" him.

[BIGUN 1,483]

jcd11235

*********>burner phones...

No such thing... Well. unless you watch too much NCIS

Please tell us you don't actually believe that. Wow.

It's trivial to obtain a phone and pre-paid service that is not linked to any particular individual, at least in the US.

Give it a shot. When you're setting it up, lemmee know at what point you bailed out of the process.

ETA: Or you could always give Mr. Skinner a call and see how that worked for him..

In 2006 the DEA arrested a man named Melvin Skinner, who was caught transporting 1,100 pounds of marijuana across the Southwest. The government was able to catch up with Skinner by tracking the signals being emitted by his two prepaid cellphones and subsequently triangulating his location.

He even lost on appeal when he used the "burner non-traceable" right to privacy defense. http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/12a0262p-06.pdf

Not every pre-paid phone is a burner phone. And anonymity is just one more thing trumped by stupid.

You'll notice in that case, the phones were not identified as the users' through data associated with the phone, but rather from other aspects of the investigation. The defendant was apparently too dumb to replace his phone regularly and often, and keep it turned off (with battery and SIM card removed) when not in use. (Keeping the phone in a Faraday cage should also work.) His phones were located via GPS, not a connection of the phone number to an individual.

That case strongly indicates that you can't fix stupid, but it doesn't indicate that burner phones don't exist, as you claim.

You & Quade are right; I'm wrong.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Gravitymaster 0]

kallend

*********Translation: You voted for him and thus for his policies.

Incorrect. I am an anti-Republican, not a Democrat.

You, however, ARE on record as supporting the Patriot Act.

Until now, of course.

I am on record as consistently against it.

What I supported is not what being done now. You and your ilk put Obama in office. Deal with it and stop trying to blame others. You own this, plain and simple.

Lame excuse. YOU supported the Patriot Act from the get-go.

Man up and admit it.

Quote

Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, who introduced the PATRIOT Act on the House floor in 2001, has declared that lawmakers’ and the executive branch’s excuses about recent revelations of NSA activity are “a bunch of bunk.”

In an interview on Laura Ingraham’s radio show Wednesday morning, the Republican congressman from Wisconsin reiterated his concerns that the administration and the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court have gone far beyond what the PATRIOT Act intended. Specifically, he said that Section 215 of the act “was originally drafted to prevent data mining” on the scale that’s occurred.

Sensenbrenner, the current chairman on the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, Homeland Security, and Investigations, suggested that the secret nature of the FISA court has prevented appropriate congressional oversight over the NSA’s activities.

When asked whether he agreed with those in Washington calling leaker Edward Snowden a traitor, Sensenbrenner responded, “No, I don’t agree,” and said that he would not have known the extent of abuse by the FISA court and the NSA without Snowden’s disclosures.

The congressman has earlier said he believes the PATRIOT Act needs to be amended to protect Americans’ privacy.

.





inShare.10

Just own this and quit blaming others.

[aphid 0]

Ironically, I picked up the book mentioned in the link that follows at an airport waiting to catch a plane a month ago. Finally opened it and began reading it three nights ago. Already in the first three chapters, the authors have seemingly released many of the "secrets" that Mr. Snowden is being vilified for. It was published back in 2011 and covers more than just the current items generating such apoplectic rage.

"Every day, the National Security Agency intercepts and stores 1.7 billion phone calls, e-mails, and "other types of communications"..."

ETA: It also speaks to the intercepts of data on American citizens within the USA, as well as the legal maneuvering to bypass any Constitutional 'problems'.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Secret_America

PBS's Frontline episode: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/topsecretamerica/#a

I recommend reading the book.